The G with some Basics.

[Crocker]

Come on G, put some top hand scenario's in here for us idiots. I was playing a few 1700 games the other day, and just knew i played some hands out badly. Also watched a couple of big games, 2100 i think, and the times those players called trump and didn't have one in their hand, G, you were a culprit of it many times and got them 9 times outa 10. What the hell is the secret to that kinda calling. HELP. Crocker.

[callme7]

Haha Crocker. Believe me when i say, there is no skill required. I haven't written much in here of late, but you gave me an idea of how to really explain the NEXT call in the 1st seat. Remember though NEXT is a percentage call in the 1st seat, it is not neccessarily the RIGHT call. I will explain it this way, and to the emails i have recieved over the last month or so wanting to know more. Ok, if you have ever been to a Casino and played Roulette you will know that with an even money bet eg. BLACK or RED you have a 47.3% chance of your colour coming in, not a 50/50 chance, the reason for this is the ZERO on the wheel, with two ZERO'S your bet has roughly a 44% chance of success. This is why over a long period of time, the CASINO wins. The Euchre wheel works in the same way but with alot better odds in your favour in the 1st seat. Many years ago i started to record and watch what players called, what was successful in the 1st seat once all players had passed in the 1st round. Being me I needed proof that this actually was the case, plus trying to find out, how much of a percentage was working for you. The NEXT call was and is a 6/4 favourite, in other words, if you can imagine a wheel with 10 spaces on it, 6 for the NEXT call and 4 for CROSSING the CREEK, this was proven over many tens of thousands of games, so yes, HOYLE does work to your advantage. It works because the opposition has passed. Even with the dealer bagging NEXT. It has a lower success rate with a beginner table, approximately 5/4 in your favour, this is because beginner players didn't know to a certain degree the strength of their hand. Also if the 7s game is introduced into HardWood the CROSS in the 1st seat becomes a little easier. The CROSS call in the 1st seat is also far more successful by the top players who know how to execute the hand. But blindly, NEXT wins in the 1st seat by a mile, i'l bet you on it. Hope this helps a little.

Eennie Meenie

The G

[Terry Brett]

This segment seems to have slowed down. Has everything been said? It is an excellent source of information to all euchre mortals. Well done to Garry and all regular contributors.

[callme7]

You are right Terry, euchre in all facets of the site has slowed down immensely. I can't help but feel when i joined a few years ago, the interest in the site was enormous, now in my view we struggle to reach 200 in Smoot's at the peak playing times, seven years ago 240-270 was very common as you would know. Even though it states where you have a nic rated, for eg. 654 out of 5500, nearly twice the amount of seven years ago, it's nics, not players that are on the increase. I feel alot more can be written about the game and strategies, but i am personally waiting for the 7s up format to be introduced, in the meantime please forward my pension to 587746 Euchre Alley Palmerston North New Zealand. 4410. Jonas, i really do want my Christmas present this year, no scrooge Mcducks please. I have stated in earlier parts of this forum, i will sponsor $1000 worth of new memberships for euchre if the 7s up format is introduced. I know it isn't much, but players will get a feel for the real game in my opinion. Keep calling and asking.

Eennie Meenie

The G

[callme7]

Had an email asking, why would we in a 7s up game block less. Simple answer is, no need to block at all. There are too many stoppers for you, the best one being the kitty, 12 dead cards or 38% of the deck. It is very rare to block in this format of the game. The blockers will be way out of touch if they continue their habit. But in the meantime we don't have to worry about it.

Eennie Meenie

The G

[freakyjordy]

Hey, well I am not new to HW (newer than alot of you other ppl of course -2yrs isn't a 'long' time). I have come to learn that quite often the tables with turn after a while of having a good run but of course this is life . I recently was given a link to the "foom" part of the HW board to have a look thru. So, after doing just that I decided to have a look around and of course this peeked my interest as it has alot of other ppl obviously over the yrs First and foremost, thanks G for the info. I have not been up until recently a player of ratings. I would have a 16 nic and sit at any random table at any given time.. now that I have been given a taste of what it's like to play for rating, I do tend to do this a little Not alot of you will know me persay as even when I did play in smoots some 18 months ago, I pretty much kept to myself. My name then was (itsonlymenuknoit), I really bad then was naive and just "played" never really had a game plan etc, never played next and as stated above never played for rating.
In the past few months in coming back into smoots (as previously was not allowed to sue to restrictions based upon my then gf ) I have gotten back in touch with certain ppl I use to talk with. I have learnt alot more in the past few months than I ever did previously.
Reading your basics has also taught me alot more; I may only be a 1700 player, I may not be as good as alot of other ppl- however I put in the effort and try to play the game all of you play. I must admit.. I was bad for 3rd seat block, extremely bad up until Lora told me not to do it as some ppl really don't like it so unless I am just playing a random provi game, I have learnt to not do this The thrill of playing the high rates gives me much more enjoyment these days than playing the game itself. And learning new ways and techniques and reading the "basics" has broadened my mind to analyze just what I previously saw in certain games.
Thanks again G for the posting, and I look forward to playing cards with you all some time int he future.
Jordy

[Todd Johnson]

Had an email asking, why would we in a 7s up game block less. Simple answer is, no need to block at all. There are too many stoppers for you, the best one being the kitty, 12 dead cards or 38% of the deck. It is very rare to block in this format of the game. The blockers will be way out of touch if they continue their habit. But in the meantime we don't have to worry about it.

Eennie Meenie

The G

I don't get what you mean when you say the kitty is your best stopper. The kitty works to the advantage of the caller, in my eyes. It doesn't matter what is in the kitty when you are defending, it matters how you lead. 12 dead cards (37.5% actually G ) plus the 5 cards in your partners hand are now dead, which equals 53% roughly. Thats over half the deck that is not in play. With a 24 card deck, 37.5 percent of the cards are not in play while going alone. So, does anyone agree with me that the higher quanity of dead cards there are, the greater the chance of your crappy loner to be successful? 3-4 years ago people were not going alone with what they are calling alone today. People will continue to push the envelope and see how far they can bend it. Logical minds will notice the hands that might have a chance, and eventually the cycle will begin again with the blocking, complaining about loners, etc.

Has anyone else played a variation of Euchre called Bid Euchre? you can play 2-4 players, and when you play 2 players the dead card percentage is even lower than it would be with 7's up, 50% actually. You deal 6 cards out instead of 5, and you deal dummy hands, so there is no upcard or kitty. You then call out how many tricks you think you can take, and the highest bidder gets to name the suit. After playing it for a couple months Erica refuses to play with me anymore because I go alone 1 out of 3 hands and hit it quite often. The rules and the bidding are different, but the math is the same.

[callme7]

Todd, i'm sure a guy with your intelligence knows what i mean. With 9s or 7s up, it makes no difference. I mean't you could possibly have two more trump out against your loner in the 7s game, forget the percentage, this is after the fact (deal) I worded the kitty thingy very badly. If you go alone with 5 trump in the 7s game, you can be stopped with three trump, or four, not possible in the 9s game, only two left. The kitty is irrelevant, you are right, but could be your downfall if you think the rest are dead. The percentages are roughly the same in most of the configurations, but the 7s game gives you a few more options with the two extra trump, where the 9s game doesn't have the option. It will be interesting that's for sure. I know what i will be doing.

Eennie Meenie

The G

[Todd Johnson]

I just didn't get the kitty part. Yes, there are two more trump out there and assuming they are dead could easily result in a euchre. In your scenario, having 5 trump would decrease the chance of anyone having 3 or 4 trump. The chance decreases even more since the kitty is bigger. I'm sorry, I only think in numbers when I play a card game, can't forget the percentages.

In the end, we'll all play different. Our instincts will guide us, and sharpen as we play 7's up more. And we will continue to challenge each other at the top

[callme7]

Not very often i play British rules, and into the bargain go alone on 10, but i had too really. The score was 10-10, my P had the deal, he turned up the 9 of hearts, i had the top five hearts in my hand. As you Brit players would know, you can't order your P up without going alone. I found out after the hand that my P had a hand full of small Black cards and wouldn't have picked the 9 up. There was no way i was going to let him turn it down with me having the top 5 in my hand. As it turned out, the 1st seat had a near black loner hand, he would have called and won the game. The opposition complained bitterly, but in my opinion that is one very good example of going alone on 9, or as in Brithish rules 10, as you play to eleven.

Eennie Meenie

The G

[redheaded stepchild]

Not very often i play British rules, and into the bargain go alone on 10, but i had too really. The score was 10-10, my P had the deal, he turned up the 9 of hearts, i had the top five hearts in my hand. As you Brit players would know, you can't order your P up without going alone. I found out after the hand that my P had a hand full of small Black cards and wouldn't have picked the 9 up. There was no way i was going to let him turn it down with me having the top 5 in my hand. As it turned out, the 1st seat had a near black loner hand, he would have called and won the game. The opposition complained bitterly, but in my opinion that is one very good example of going alone on 9, or as in Brithish rules 10, as you play to eleven.

Eennie Meenie

The G

This may be the only acceptable reason for going alone on 10(not counting those rare to 15 games). IMO you obviously did nothing wrong.