Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post Reply
User avatar
In2ition
Active Poster
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 10:28 pm

Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by In2ition » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:06 pm

I've been playing on HW for a fair while now, long enough to remember when Hardwood Forest league's membership was so big it needed 2 tourney rooms to cope. There used to be rules as far as addying in the lobby was concerned, and they were strictly adhered to. All new TD's were brought up to speed with them as part of their TD training, and HA's made sure they stuck to them. Those were the days when guides didn't seem scared of euchre's lobby and were frequently seen socialising with players and making sure the addy rules were abided by (among other things i'm sure).

What happened?

The rules that were designed to keep the lobby clear of clutter and bring order to chaos regarding tourney addy's are either all but forgotten, or just completely ignored. When it's brought to the attention of TD's, they are either unaware or could care less. One TD yesterday, when told a 5 line addy was not in line with the rules, promptly told me a guide said it was ok. Would it be too much to ask for either a member of admin, or a guide familiar with how things used to be, to write up a clear set of rules and post it as a sticky topic in the forum please. There are times that the lobby just gets crazy. It really needs to be curbed.
Confucious Say : War not determine who is right.... War determine who is left!

User avatar
grandmaS
Grand Master
Posts: 5705
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:23 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by grandmaS » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:58 pm

http://www.silvercrk.com/server_rules/

Bottom of the page

Tournament Posting Rules



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you are posting in a lobby for an upcoming tournament, you may post a notice a maximum of once every 10 minutes and not more than one hour prior to the tournament.


You may increase the rate to once every 2.5 minutes in the last 10 minutes before the tournament starts.


You should alternate posts with other tournament announcements. Do not post right after someone else has posted about another tournament. Wait at least one minute before you post yours.

Do not post the same tournament as another player. It is best if the Tournament Director or someone appointed by the Tournament Director handles all the posting.


If a Game Guide or Silver Creek Entertainment Representative asks you to stop posting or asks you to change your posting you must do so.


All imagery on your tournament web site must be suitable for a general audience. No adult only pictures. No genitals or lewd depictions. No genitals or pubic hair shall be visible in any way. Other sexually based imagery may be removed at our discretion.
Image

I am woman I am strong

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by Sailing_Away » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:28 pm

This reminded me that not too long ago a guide reined me in when I was advertising for Tournament of Players (Hearts). I had used the same five-line ad for a year and was frankly shocked when I got the warning box.

After a discussion in an empty side room, when the guide refered me to the rule as published in this thread, I still had no idea what was wrong with my ad and asked him again why I got the warning. He said I needed to follow this part of the rule:

"If a Game Guide or Silver Creek Entertainment Representative asks you to stop posting or asks you to change your posting you must do so."

I said ok but what is wrong with my post (felt like I was going in circles with this). He finally said "it's too long". I asked how long it should be, and he said 2 lines is enough. Since then I have cut down to a 2 line ad plus a hope to see you soon message.

I say all this to ask..... if five lines is too many, why can't the rule be updated to provide this detail as well? You won't have TDs breaking the rules if this is spelled out as clearly as the every 10 minute rule, not alternating posts with other tourneys and 2.5 mins within 10 mins of the start are.

Is it too much of a surprise that people break rules that aren't explicitly written anywhere?
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

User avatar
grandmaS
Grand Master
Posts: 5705
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:23 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by grandmaS » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:46 pm

If we explicity wrote out every rule that covered every detail of everything, it would be so long no one would read it at all. :)
Image

I am woman I am strong

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by Sailing_Away » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:32 pm

Well... I understand that you can't detail every possible way this rule is to be applied, but it seems like if there is a particular situation your tourney TD's frequently have trouble with due to it not being detailed, it would be easier to at least clarify those most common misunderstandings.

I can read the rules a thousand times and not glean on my own that five lines is too many for a tourney advertisement.

I am trying to work with you all here.
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

User avatar
grandmaS
Grand Master
Posts: 5705
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:23 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by grandmaS » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:47 pm

Ok well here is a good way to figure this one out :)

More then 3 lines in a row is considered flooding the lobby. Example Need 1
Still need 1
Need 1
Just one more (this like would be flooding)
Thats with no one else talking inbetween mind you..................................................................................
Example 2: H
i
J
I (flooding)
M (flooding more)

You can laugh but it happens alot and meanwhile other players who are wanting to ask for players to their tables or call for guides or whatever are getting angry. So common sense would say that a post that is over 3 lines is flooding and not allowed on those grounds. In some of our game sites we have so many leagues and td's if we didn't set limits no one but the td's would ever get a word in edgewise, and since we try to keep the rules the same for all our game sites this is one of them :).

Hope this helps and hope that if you ever become admin of a league you will tell your td's to be sure not to flood with thier posts :)
Image

I am woman I am strong

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by Sailing_Away » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:01 pm

Guess part of that isn't as obvious to me as to those who have been around longer than I have. My full-length ad went something like this (we don't require registration anymore but at the time we did):

Sailing_Away: The Tournament of Players tourney will be starting at 9PM ET tonight
Sailing_Away: in the TOP Tourney room. This is a straight hearts tourney.
Sailing_Away: Please visit www.toptourney.org for more info on rules & format.
Sailing_Away: Register by emailing topregistration@xxxxxx.xxx.
Sailing_Away: Hope to see you soon!

I felt I needed to get all that in so people would know how to join if they wanted to. Since we dropped the registration requirement, it's not so bad, and I have gone to using lines 1,2 and 5 and then 1,3 and 5 ten minutes later to get it all out. The 3-line max rule seemed to preclude me being able to effectively tell people how to join though when registrations were required, but I have since found a way to work around that within the rules since I don't have to tell people how to register anymore.

To say that this blocks people from asking for players in their room.... aren't all the rooms with empty seats at the top of the list of rooms anyway? I mean, when I go into smoots, I know which games need players just by looking. I don't need to wait for a posting to the lobby "need 1 please" to figure that out. Assuming my tourney is the only one starting at 9pm ET, which it is, who am I in conflict with? Who is providing a more informational message.... the one announcing how to join a tourney starting soon, or the one saying "need 1 please" which is obvious anyway?

I understand why flooding is not allowed, but in my experience in other forums, flooding is sending the same message over and over (like your example 1) or typing garbage nonsense (like your example 2), neither of which is like what I show above. That's why I think you should update your rules to say that tourney ads should be no longer than 3 lines if that is a rule that is strictly enforced. It makes obvious sense to you and to others who have seen more blatant situations than I bring, but again, it seems I am not the only TD to ever be called on breaking a rule that has never been explained to me until long after I have made it common practice, so it's not so obvious for the rest of us.
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

User avatar
grandmaS
Grand Master
Posts: 5705
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:23 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by grandmaS » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:41 pm

Well you have the tour board out side the lobbys to list your tours on so if we go with whats obvious, you really don't need to post in open play lobbys at all, if someone is interested in playing a tour they can look at the board. :)

However, I am not saying that you should not be able to post, I am saying you are going into an open play room where players are playing and chatting and asking for players or subs etc. and so on. And wanting to post about your tour which isn't even in that room :). So the polite thing to do would be to respect the fact that you are posting in their lobby and keep your posts to the point :)

If some one who was not interested in playing in your tours came in your tourny room and started flooding the lobby with, COME ON GUYS LETS GO TO SMOOTS AND PLAY SOME REAL HEARTS, WE NEED JUST TWO MORE AT TABLE TEN IN SMOOTS COME ON LETS GO :) SEE ME AT TABLE 10 in SMOOTS FOR A REAL GAME OF HEARTS
Would that be allowed, would you appreciate it? would you think well thats ok cause our players already know what they are here for so no big deal if somone floods the lobby with stuff they think is important? To open play people your room and your messages are no more imprortant to them then their messages in your room would be to you. But in fact I bet you would be silencing them and or calling for a guide.

All I am really saying is it comes down to respecting each other. The people who are in the open play rooms may or may not be interested in your tour, but you are allowed to post in THIER room as long as you do it respectfully, and hopefully they won't come to your tour room and interrupt your tour asking for players in the regular rooms. :)

As far as it being put in the list of rules how many lines you are allowed to use for posting in the regular rooms. Probably is not a bad idea, however I don't write the rules I just enforce them :) So hopefully someone who is in charge of writing the rules will take that underadvisement and add that line for you and others who may not know. And hopefully room admins who have been here longer then new td's and know what flooding is, will tell thier new td's too :).
Image

I am woman I am strong

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by Sailing_Away » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:07 am

I never ever would have considered advertising in smoots or wizards domain a rude intrusion as that is where the hearts players are and where we play when we aren't in a tourney, and we do get new players from time to time as a result. Also, none of our postings are ever like

COME ON GUYS LETS GO TO TOURNEY AND PLAY SOME REAL HEARTS, WE NEED JUST TWO MORE IN THE TOURNEY COME ON LETS GO SEE ME IN THE TOURNEY FOR A REAL GAME OF HEARTS over and over and over again.

Besides, that's not at all my point. My point in this discussion is to illustrate that TD's do not necessarily find it obvious that advertisements should not exceed 3 lines without being expressly told that's a rule. We may feel our posting is conveying all the necessary information we need to in as little space as possible, and yet find ourselves being told we're breaking a rule we never saw in writing. You say you are just enforcing the rules, and I just ask that such rules be in writing (kinda like being pulled over for speeding in the deep south despite there being no posted speed limit signs anywhere).

If you made a list of rules TD's violate when it comes to posting ads for tourneys, I bet this one comes to the top of the list as most frequently violated. I am not saying SCE needs to expand the allowable number of lines per post.... you obviously have reasons for having established that threshold you consider reasonable. I am saying that adding one line to the rule on tourney advertising would put this whole issue to bed.
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

User avatar
grandmaS
Grand Master
Posts: 5705
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:23 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by grandmaS » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:15 am

:)
Image

I am woman I am strong

User avatar
larryboy1956
Guide
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by larryboy1956 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:24 pm

I own a league and I do not agree with addy's outside of the league's room. There is a post available and that should be enough. Those who are curious about the leagues can go find out in the league rooms. For some reason there seems to be competiton between the leagues; WHY ? It doesnt pay and it's work ...why compete to have more end more players? Different leagues, different styles , there is somthing for anyone and everyone including rooms where there are no leagues so let's leave those rooms alone and leave the interested people come see us on their owm !
One thing I have learned over my 12 years as head administrator is that the more people there are, th higher the possibilitie of fights and arguments. It's definitely best to stay small cause it's much easier to control and keep the peace.

That's just my opinon but it has worked out fine for me.
Image

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Tourney Addy Rules In Lobby

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:25 am

I know of a software company based in Germany that thinks marketing and advertising are just a waste of money, and that if you build the best product, it will sell itself. At least that was the prevailing attitude of this company over most of it's 40 year history. After all that time, despite having the best product in its space, when you look at that company's mindshare.... the percent of IT executives who have heard of this product or this company... it is quite clear that some marketing and advertising could have helped it's market share.

I say this to illustrate that while we have good tourneys out there and even a tourney board (the new hearts build makes it easier to see the tourney board and tourney rooms, by the way), it is quite reasonable to think that players in smoots may not necessarily think of going to the tourney rooms and/or be aware that a tourney is about to start unless there is some advertising done. As a TD in the Tournament of Players, I have recruited from smoots a few people... some who played again and became regulars, so I know it works. We have the only singles-only tourney on hardwood, but people aren't going to come as much if we don't advertise. Even though we draw about 28 on average per night, which is good turnout for a tourney here, the more that come, the better the games are, in my experience.

The rules on tourney advertising keep the affect on lobby activity to a minimum, and it's clear that these rules were set up to minimize the disruption. As it is, I stop advertising about 20 minutes before the start and totally miss the chance to post every 2.5 minutes because setting up is a manual process and I can't get away from the tourney room to post (unless we start and are 1-2 players short of a full table).

I understand if you feel you don't need to advertise your tourney, but we feel it is to our advantage to do so. So long as we do this in a way that doesn't mess the smoots lobby up, I think SCE welcomes it. After all, the tourneys brought in so many new registrants in order to get started, and I bought my first license here in order to play in TOP.... so it is to SCE's advantage to support both the lobby players and the tourneys.
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

Post Reply