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Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:30 am
by Jonas
Death_Row wrote: Jonas... since there is a list "PRNG".... has there been any testing done to verify the AI isn't somehow utilizing (gotten access) those pre-defined numbers? There should be some way of exposing the list for testing purposes to find out how the numbers are being pulled off (by the bot) the list. Since no one knows what or how the AI/neural-net is doing things.
The AI is treated like a player, and it's very separate code. IT's not able to get that info. Even if it had access, the way the code works it doesn't have a concept that would allow it to ponder the sequence of dice. It's just looks at any given state of the board, and the current roll, and through trial and error has figured out what moves will give it an advantage. Its not currently being trained, and hence could not (even if it had the data which it doesn't) be able to ponder a strategy of what might come up next with the dice, or further more deal with the unpredictably of when you pick your dice which would change the sequence.

Also when the AI was trained it wasn't using OUR RNG, so that would rule out that it learned some obscure pattern if we had one in the roll calculations.

Its basically not a issue, there are just some aspect that make it an impossibility. The AI just plays in a way thats a little foreign to human players, appearing to make silly moves one time, and stellar moves at others. That perceived erratic play in a human opponent might make one ponder if they are just getting lucky or cheating, but i this case it's just thinking in a different way.

Death_Row wrote: I still believe the implementation of the cups (giving control back to the players: single and server player) would help the perception of the game.
We may do that the next time we update the Backgammon client.

Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:49 pm
by Death_Row
From all the post I've read regarding this issue... all complaints revolve around the dice. The consistently lucky rolls the bot gets. One has to have the dice rolls to make certain moves.

Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:14 am
by Death_Row
Jonas,

Don't get me wrong sir.... I play at least one of your games every day (well almost). The graphics of your games are top notch (in my opinion). I'd just like to see this (backgammon) rise above (be one of the first) this perception issue. People that speak so strongly regarding this matter are people that like the game and may hate to see it come up short in the areas in question. I'd just like to play the game and not "feel" like I'm being cheated by the bot. Once again... it's not a strategic thing regarding the bot... it's the lucky dice rolls the bot gets.

To trouble shoot an issue you change one thing at a time. So let's "roll" (is that a pun? I'm not sure) with the cups.

Thanks for your time and attention to this matter Sir...

Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:06 am
by Jonas
I think that would be a likely refinement when we do touch backgammon next.

Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:13 pm
by Death_Row
6 sets of doubles in the last 7 moves...

Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 12:03 am
by Death_Row
Any idea when you guys are going to start working this so far perception problem?

Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:21 am
by Death_Row
Anybody ever roll the same number 3 times in a row? What's the odds?

Re: Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor, absolutly not.

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:04 pm
by Death_Row
I don't care how lucky you are 6 sets of doubles in the first 8 rolls....

Are the rolls stacked in the computers favor absolutly not

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:28 pm
by BarryCruic
I would have to agree with the Doc on this one. I have played 20 games over the course of 4 or 5 days and lost 16 or 17 of them. Im not a bad euchre player. Ive played hundreds of euchre games in real life and I agree when I hear the Doc say that in real life, with real shuffles and real cuts, I wouldnt be losing 9 or 10 games in a row. On the same token, nor would I win 9 or 10 games in a row, which has happened on Hardwood.

ps....Has anyone noticed that no one with any power or authority has posted on this subject? Suspicious.....