Another Bid Quiz

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Post by x MISSY x » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:43 am

Yanno nick i never thought about it like that...TY

I really tried by leading low, cept my p didnt catch on..Oh well least now i kno with that specific pard leadin low wont get him to play his high. Next time i will try it in reverse with him.

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Post by Galt » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:47 pm

You should probably have a talk with your pard about a Spade lead demanding high Spade from pard.
Last edited by Galt on Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by _S_X_Eian_ » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:53 pm

I told a brand new pard of mine 2 things before we played in the Grand Prix. First was always play your highest spades when I lead them. If she lost a trick by doing this I would make it up for her. And second I told her to always bid 1 less then she would normally bid and I will adjust as needed. We ended up going 8-1 and being seeded #1 in the playoffs getting a bye to the round of 8. We ended up losing but did pretty good for being a new pard. (my reg pard had to back out last minute). 1 of the 2 things I told her and I tell every new partner that I am going to be playing any type of competitive play with is to always play high spade and lead them back if you get the chance. This is one of the most important agreements you can have in my mind.


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Partnership Conventions

Post by Joe Andrews » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:36 pm

Yes, Todd, you are right. Your prowess in the Spades arena is already well known, and respected. I have previously posted on the topic of Partnership Understanding, Communication, and Rapport. In the "live" event arena, this is so important, especially with the cash Prizes which are offered.

In "on line" events, the stakes are small. A loss due to bad play or a goof may result in giving up a few ratings points, or wasting a few hours of your time. Just go to another room, and sign up for another game. Although there are many, many fine players who play high level Spades on- line, there is nothing more competitive than playing in a "live" event.

And there is more to it than that. A critical mistake or lapse by either member of a Partnership can result in a brutal loss, and maybe, elimination. Given the amount of money it costs to go to "live" events, the tension at the table is heightened, especially with big Cash Prizes at stake.

When I sit down with a new partner at a "live" event, I don't usually have a lot of time to go over everything. That is why those pairs who play regularly have such a huge advantage.

Small wonder that J Cree and Higgy have dominated so many events. Another example of long time successful Partnerships is the Craig / Jody D. "Elite Spades" team. The Tomlinsons are very good. And you, Todd, have brought home some nice Prizes, too. There is no substitute for experience.

Among the basic agreements, I would include:

1. Leading Spades back to partner when he/she leads the suit. A low Spade lead is taken high, and suit is returned ASAP. (already discussed)

2. The Big 5 Bid - (Promising A or K of Spades.)

3. High - Low signals with spot cards in the off suits, to show two and exactly two cards of that suit.

4. Lead Conventions, off suits. Ace lead promises K (a new innovation from the Bridge Players) King lead denies the A but promises K Q. Queen lead promises the J but denies the K, etc.

5. Playing low in 2nd seat when the lead comes the right (exception, an honor card led), and not cutting in 2nd seat (exception) - holding two or less worthless low trump.

If my partner can adhere to these basic items, and not underlead Aces or King or tenace combinations, and if he can remember when a Jack or ten is a the winning card of a suit, then we have increased our chances.

Then we can talk about Suit Preference Signals, Rusinow Leads, Attitude Leads, Nil Reverse Signals, and lots of other gadgets.

Ahh, the good old days, when my time was not so squeezed, and I coud sit in the Zone and play Spades for hours on end!

If we have no partnership agreements / conventions. then ....

We are playing Spades for giggles and S_ _ _ _ s!

Maybe that is not so bad, after, all. It's only a game! :lol:
Last edited by Joe Andrews on Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by x MISSY x » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:51 pm

Back when i was new to HW but not playing spades I had a male pard that i played with on a reg basis. He yelled at me sooooooo many times for holding my higher trump for fear that i would lose it, that NOW no matter who my pard is if they lead a small spade midway i will always play my highest and return. Sooo when playin the hand in question that was my thought behind it. I had decided that we were takin the bags may as well go for set. Now Joe when u said some of those Aggrements I noticed one that i dont adhere to.
Lead Conventions, off suits. Ace lead promises K (a new innovation from the Bridge Players) King lead denies the A but promises K Q. Queen lead promises the J but denies the K, etc.
I often lead a queen w/out any promise of anything. my only promise to leading a queen is that i dont have anything better to lead and i dont want to murder my pards king.

Is that bad?

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Post by Openshut » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:59 pm

Mr. Andrews are you in favor of the Big-5? I would be very shocked if we where to take a poll of the better players and find that they are in favor of the Big-5 convention. I personally find the idea offensive for my self to ever use and would personally rather lose over doing so.

There should be no reason in my mind that we should directly know our partners hold Ace nor King of spades on the bid, by no means other than an agreement, where is the actual game logic to support this in any naturalistic manner. Even if I where to bid 10 does it means I must have either. However personal choice must be respected since if one convention is acceptable then they all must be, but I would like to hear your honest take on this.

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Post by Dust In The Wind » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:16 pm

I see your point of view there Open but if it's a "convention" and others use it to their advantage should you also use it to your advantage also?

It's like the many little rules we see in all cards games that make sense to the experienced player and to the novice they do not have a clue as to (as in hearts) to pass a lower heart to stop the moon attempt. If everyone passed a lower heart then everyone knows around the table each one holds a heart that can be covered to stop a run. Games like Euchre have their conventions as well as Bridge and Spades and not to use them when the others do most of the time will put you at a disadvantage.

Yes it can work to your advantage also knowing that a pair use it and you don't but they are also telling you their hand with their bid. As we used to say in the Navy counter-counter measures or anti-counter-counter measures and so on.

So if you do use it not use it, it is your choice, I play according to my pard and adapt. IE: if they bid their hand and always bid their hand I know how to change my bid to counteract to what they should have bid. Sometimes it works.


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Post by Joe Andrews » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:01 pm

As has been stated previously,

"Until there is a National governing body or organization for the game of Spades, there can be no restriction on the use Convention or carding applications".

The game of Bridge allows many similar Conventions. Most are standard require no "Alerts". Then again, Bridge has the ACBL. Spades may need another 10 years to have a similar organization. I hope to see it in my lifetime....

The Big 5 bid is not a form of cheating. Nor is the Nil Reverse signal. Nor are opening lead applications, Suit preference leads, "high - low" discards, or discarding a high card to indicate a return of a particular suit.
There is no Rule in any book, or any site which restricts any of these.

I use the Big 5 Bid with most partners. It is useful. The other Conventions are helpful too.

Enjoy Spades, and Have a nice Holiday Season!

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Re: Another Bid Quiz

Post by dustin7609 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:06 pm

x MISSY x wrote:We Have 448 Points and 8 bags
They Have 491 Points and 1 bags

Bid South: 3
Bid West: 2

What do you bid with this hand?

Deal North:
6s Qs Ks
3h 6h 8h
6c Qc Ac
8d 0d Kd Ad
Simple. Just do the math. N/S must bid 9. You must force E/W to bid the highest possible since you cannot bag them -- which is 4 or 5 (that leaves you with 9).

West should have bid 1 btw to allow East the final say.

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Post by Just_Ice » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:26 pm

Openshut, the Big 5 does not mean you hold the A or K of Spades if you bid 5 or more, only if you bid exactly 5. A partnership using this would bid 4 or 6 if they did not hold either, depending on hand strength. However, when using the Big 5 and your partner bids 6, it's best to adjust your bid down by 1 just in case.

But, to your point, the Big 5, as with all other forms of pre-determined signals, is limited. There is no way signals can allow for every situation, but are to be used as a guide for general hand play.

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