What Did I Do Wrong?

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Just_Ice
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What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by Just_Ice » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:56 pm

The game situation isn't important, I'll add as much as I need to help you see what was going on.

Game is early and fairly close. My pard bids Nil.

I had:

Diams expended.
Hearts A,8,7
Clubs J,8,6
Spades not broken.

It's my lead. I led the A hearts then the 8 of hearts, my pard went set. He starts yelling at me and telling me how lousy of a player I was.

Should I have led the J and uncovered the 8,6?

Then, later, we were behind about 100 points, my pard was nbil and my RHO was nil. Total bid was 9. We had 4 bags they had 7.

I had A,K,Q,8,4,2 of hearts. I opened with the A, then led the 2, pard got set again because my LHO chose to duck as opposed to cover. Again, the yells and blame for how sorry of a player I was.

Would you lead the 2 after playing the A? What would you do? The other suits I had were not good for cover so I wanted to avoid them. I felt I had the best chance to contol and set the RHO in Hearts.

Any comments?

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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by bgb » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:29 pm

The only thing I see that you did wrong is pard someone who likes to bid risky nils. They bid nil with at least 2 mid to high hearts and couldnt duck the 7. This should only be a last hand nil or possibly a nil when you are way behind and have to desperately try to close the score. I personally would not bid nil with only 2 mid-high cards in any suit unless the score dictated the bid.

The 2nd hand because you are down in points and 9 bid on the table you have to take risks somewhere in your hand at setting the opps nil. Covering and taking the bags just puts you further behind. Holding AKQ842 of hearts, I wouldnt open with the Ace, if you want to play high on the first card play the queen. This way it gives limited information to the cover opp about the heart holdings of their p. Playing the Q tells you where everyone is at because you know where the AK is. So for example if you played the Ace, and the opp nil played 3 or 5, the cover opp would know their p only had a singleton heart, or possibly one more very small heart holding. But, if you played the Q, it's possible the opp nil could have held Kx or Kxx, or in provisional or lower rated games possibly Axx or AKxx.

But, to be honest, you played both hands fine, and just got unlucky on the 2nd hand. The first hand there is nothing you can do, your pard bid a risky nil.

Good luck in your games!

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Galt
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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by Galt » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:13 am

In general your play was fine, but a little more information would help.

In the second situation, I'd like to know at what level the score was and what you and your left hand opp bid.

The reason is I would normally skip leading high at all in this situation and lead a low Heart, unless the score level was relatively low and/or I had a much larger bid than the LHO and/or I thought the skill level of our team was meaningfully higher than that of the opps.

Normally is this situation you want to force the front seat cover into the lead as fast as possible which then gives you maximum control on the hand for bagging and setting.

Of course, this would just have caused your pard to be even more upset... see the thread about rude players.
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Just_Ice
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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by Just_Ice » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:17 pm

The second situation was fairly late in the game. The score was about 400 (them) to 300 give or take bags.

I considered opening with the 2. I thought with a 9 total the best opening lead was the 2, with my LHO being in the lead and really needing to play more conservatively than I did. But, based on what happened earlier I wanted to give my pard a chance to ditch a higher single in the suit (if that's what he had).

It's been a while since I've really played Spades, but you don't forget THAT much. I'm slowly working back into it.

Thank you both for the comments.

Good to "See" you Galt!

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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by qetzal » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:05 pm

Hi all. First post, though I've been reading this & other boards for a couple of years.

I agree that there's nothing obviously wrong with the AH lead in the first situation. However, you say dimes are expended, meaning there have already been a few tricks played, right? It's possible that your p thought you made a mistake before your AH lead. Sometimes I find that it's important to plan my nil cover from the first trick, deciding when I do or don't want to be in the lead. Without knowing what else you held and what else was played prior to the AH lead, it's at least possible a mistake might have been made.

In the second situation, you say p was "nbil." Is that a typo for nil, or do you mean blind nil? I play at Yahoo, not Hardwood, but if your p was blind nil, with the potential to make 200, then you have more need to cover. The opps might be willing to let their nil go set as long as your p's blind nil is also set. The order of the bid also matters. For example, if LHO bid nil in last seat, after your p also bid nil (or blind nil), it suggests to me that he has a strong nil hand. His team is ahead by 100, and his p may be forced into the lead (as you tried to do), so if he's a decent player, he should know better than to nil without a very good hand.

All that said, given the score, I think you did the right thing to try to force LHO into the lead, but I think you should have picked a different suit to lead. You had 6 hearts, including AKQ. LHO might have only had one low heart, and had no option but to duck. If nothing else, you know he doesn't have AKQ to play. Also, you have to assume your p's nil hand might be risky given the score.

So, I think a better play would be to lead low with clubs or dimes. You didn't have any high cards there anyway, so hopefully LHO does, and he'll go up high and take the lead. Then you can hope he'll either bag or be forced to set his p.

No matter what though, there's no excuse for your p to be yelling at you. I admit I get frustrated with a partner's play from time to time, but I try to make it a policy to never criticize. Yelling at a partner, especially early in the game, is frankly stupid. It just guarantees that your team will be antagonistic, rather than working together as much as possible.

In other words, even if you did make a mistake, the only lousy player was your p.

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Galt
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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by Galt » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:46 pm

Hey buddy. I gotta admit and apologize that i didn't even realize that it was you who posted... don't ask.

Very nice to see you, and even more ironic that your pard was hollerin on you.

(J is a good Spades player.)

Hope to see you around, and hope that you and the family are doing well.

p.s. Given the score in the second situation the low play is really a no brainer. If you don't set or bag them you lose, so it is a no risk, all reward play.
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Just_Ice
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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by Just_Ice » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:25 pm

Yes, I took the first three leads with Diams. My pard was clear with his rants, he felt I should have played clubs if I had any. He was upset I stayed with hearts on the next lead and didn't switch to clubs.

Yes, nil, it was a typo. I don't sit at games where bnil is an option, unless I've waited a while and there just isn't anything else.

The 2nd situation, I chose hearts only because there were fewer cards out of that suit and I could get a better read on my pard's hand by playing a heart, only since I chose to lead the A first because of his prior rant, which I think may have been my only mistake, which is what he didn't like anyway.

It's OK Galt... it's been a while. Family is good. The youngest (twins) start high school this year... I think I'm as old as you are now.

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Galt
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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by Galt » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:56 am

Nah, I am sure that you are older than me as has always been the case.
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Dust In The Wind
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Re: What Did I Do Wrong?

Post by Dust In The Wind » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:45 pm

In my opinion whether you did right or wrong a pard does not need to bark at the other... bottom line it is a game and sometimes second guessing what you pard has is a guess at best especially if you have a random pard.

Your logic was sound to me.

JUST DUST
TO BE OR NOT TO BE..... NOW WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT??? TO BE OF COURSE!!!!!

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