Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

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Jonas
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Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Jonas » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:20 pm

Over the years we've had folks request that we separate ratings between major game variants, say partners versus Individual for example.

We're going to be adding more compelling access to ratings in the form of leader boards right in the game and on the website.

So my 1st question is, what variants of Spades would you most like to see with it's own leader boards?

My second question is how should we precede, reset the ratings when we do the split or seed them with whatever your at now?

So option 1 would basically mean that everyone would start with a clean slate and would need to become rated on each new leader board.

The 2nd option would be to copy the rating you have now to each leader board as the starting point.

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Primal Instincts » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:35 am

I like the idea of a leaderboard.....however I play mainly in singles and it took hard work to get the high rating I have on most of my nics and I would hate to see them deleted...I like the idea of splitting the ratings with what we have now..and copying them to the leaderboard as a starting point....the only part I have issues with is deleting our current ratings because I soley earned em without the help of a partner or playing in 3 way cut...... 8)
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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Galt » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:23 pm

I think that either way would be fine, Jonas.

I do think that the "top 25" list has done a lot to contribute to the bad behavior here over the years.

I would be very happy with no leader boards of any kind.

As for Spades...

The most important split is separating team and singles.

Next would be splitting the regular game (500, Nil = 100, no BN, no pass) from all other variants.

Thanks
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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Jonas » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:30 pm

Galt, we might conciser having a Standard Rules leaderboard.

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Sagwa » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:21 am

After 10 years of supporting spades, I would hate to see all those thousands of nics reset.
Way back when you reset the high provies and left us one. You said this would never be done again.

If you have to do something, let us keep our ratings on provies and ranked nics.

If you don't use individual in ratings, then the 1800 , 1900 names won't get games.

You can sit for hours and not get an 1800 and above game.

Yes we are all aware of the padding. *Rock and a hard place.*

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Sagwa » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:28 am

Food for thought.

For years we've discussed removing the Top Ranked Leader Board.
I would guess, 88% do not care about the rankings.
Some have gotten there by a means that is far from fair.

Why do we need a leader board? I just looked and 2 or 3 players have most of the names there.

Take away the leader board, it stops a lot of problems.

:?:

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Galt » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:53 am

I would think that that would be a good idea, or at least not go adding new ones.

I think that very few truly good players are interested in leader boards. Good players know that they are good and don't need some list to make them feel better about themselves.
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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Jonas » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:30 am

Galt wrote: I think that very few truly good players are interested in leader boards.
Good players know that they are good and don't need some list to make them feel better about themselves.
So your take is that Good players aren't apt to play rating games since attaining a higher rating doesn't appeal to them?

Is there any stat that would appeal to more advanced players in your estimation? We can have leaderboards for things other than ratings. Say total games played, win/loss ratios.

What is it that good players pride themselves on, and can is be measured?

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by red » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:36 am

I don't think that would be fair to reset all nicks...one like me started all 3 times, wouldn't have problem to do again, but there are many that build their ratting for years... and have the right to show off... and i would say the same about the top 25... those that don't care about it... change nicks all the time...those that care ...let them see their name their... i remember that i was very happy when i saw my name there for the first time...
I think is great the idea of ratting for singles ..cut and pards... starting for what we have... many will just keep the old nicks on the closet and bring new ones to see how they build new ones...
Good luck on the changes.and sorry about my English

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Chevy43 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:59 pm

I have to say this topic will be HOT and ENTERTAINING soon... when the changes do go into effect. Whatever they are ! But right now I have to say my opinion or thought : No leaderboards and get rid of the cheaters as soon as they are identified FIRST TIME. Some of they "high" raters are some of the best cheaters in here. And Silvercrk , you , have been given their names many times , and examples , logs .. when the games happen. For some reason the cheaters have squatters rights in HW. How about getting rid of rating all together. Those that need to be the "best" by numbers or ranking will join leagues. Jonas , ask other people besides Galt. Yes he is one but there are many that know the game - the game SPADES - :)

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Jonas » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:07 pm

As an aside, we're planning on a friends list, so that could make a leaderboard a lot more relevant to each player. So you'll be able to effectively have a leaderboard of your friends.

the top 25 is a pretty boring leaderboard and doesn't have much connection to most players. By having multiple leader boards and different ways to look at them (by friends for example), that should make it alot more compelling.

While we only have a leaderboard for each game currently in Solitaire IV, it does give you an idea on how it can be fun.

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Sagwa » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:23 pm

What do the brand new players do, if there is a friends list already?

I'm still wondering why there has to be a leader board at all?

It's more of a chat room now, most mainly stay in the lobby. (cheaper than an aol chatroom)

But the issue is still there. We use to be over 300 in Smoots and now it never comes close.

I see more than 50% of the high ranked players in TFS and a couple of other leagues.
I like the post where he/she mentions. If they want ranked on a leader board join a league.

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Huskerpro » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:25 pm

Heres some input from my perspective...and experience from playing at many sites over last 15 years
The top 25 ACTIVE page is just too incomplete as a standard page to begin with.....Whats really needed is a list of all rated nics.....not more seperation.
and the ratings are obscured from room to room, or more precisely from choice of game is due to 1 thing.....again....seperation.
Put all rated games in 1 room(or multiple rooms allowing limited players per) youve created a platfrom where a person can advertise(making table and in chat) for certain ratings/games... Its really unfortunate that its impossible to get nics higher then about 1700-1800 in gnomes for instance..yes the point scale is a little obscured to hamper sucess for any 4 way singles players but it can be overcome in time with exposure....I know the way things are structured is to not overtax the servers but the seperation in the games in the first place has created the huge rating differences.
For those who used to play at Mplayer over a decade ago can speak to the eveness in ratings throughout the styles or game choices.
I will go even further, this is same reason why ladders arent very successful at hardwood, seperation seperation seperation.
Keep up the seperation, you keep compuounding the problem, make more lists..........more SEPERATION
Changer the servers and in time the ratings will begin to balance...........give a complete list in order of rating....then anyone and everyone can see all your friends nics...
As well as all the high nics, active or not....if you wanna keep an active top 25 so be it....but stop the seperation and everything will fix itself

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Huskerpro » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:32 pm

1 more thing, a complete list helps peoople track cheaters.......especially when purposely being monitored for just that

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Re: Ponder multiple Leaderboards, need feedback.

Post by Chevy43 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:24 pm

I just visited Hearts Forum. There is this same subject that Jonas posted. Someone posted their thoughts and I wanted to echo them. I dont care how many leaderboards are added, they will mean nothing with all the cheaters doing all they can to be on top . All leaderboards here in HW do are give cheaters a reason to cheat even more. This place has changed tremendously. This poster mentioned how cheaters are allowed back ... I also said the same thing. Keep that practise Jonas and all the changes will make no difference. NO LEADERBOARDS.

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