RESET

SCOOT353
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RESET

Post by SCOOT353 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:09 am

there are a lot of people on here that play at work or have dial up and for that reason sometime have to reset because of incomplete games and it seems a little unfair to take reset away with out warning it seems u could give it back for a time to let people have that chance if they want to.afterall when they paid they had it.

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Sailing_Away
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Re: RESET

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:25 am

If you are playing at work and have a high incomplete game % as a result, it isn't fair to everyone else that you reset it and deceive everyone else into thinking you might actually finish your games.

Just my opinion.....
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

sapphira
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Re: RESET

Post by sapphira » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:04 am

I love my Hardwood Spades and I play everyday.

I am not a good player but still enjoy the company and game.

Without reset players such as myself are either kicked or booted out of games because the rating is too low - why since we paid for this game are we not permitted to reset - it seems quite unfair

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Galt
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Re: RESET

Post by Galt » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:28 am

Sap, the reason that you have been getting kicked out of games is exactly because of the reset button and provi games being frauds.

I mentioned the other day that I saw 1450 games filling.

Last night I saw a 1350 game fill quite quickly, just like at a normal Spades site. Have you ever seen that happen at HW before? Of course not because of the reset button.

You will now not be getting kicked out of games because there will be games available at all levels and you will be able to find games that are appropriate for you playing ability.

Evil, I understand your concern, but it is probably a price worth paying to fix the problems that have been caused by the endless resetting of nics.
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SCOOT353
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Re: RESET

Post by SCOOT353 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:10 am

IT SEEMS NO ONE ACTUALLY READ MY POST.I WASNT TAKING ABOUT PROS AND CONS OF RESETTING I WAS TALKING ABOUT GIVING ANYONE A CHANCE TO RESET ONE TIME IF THEY WANT TO.IT WAS TAKIN AWAY WITHOUT WARNING AND THATS NOT FAIR. MY VIEW ON IT IS IT SHOULD BE UP TO THE PERSON IF THEY WANT TO RESET AFTER EVERY GAME PEOPLE THAT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT ARE THE ONES WHO TAKE THIS SILLY RATING STUFF TO SERIOUS. IF A CARD GAME RATING IS IMPORTANT TO YOU THEN YOU HAVE A LOT BIGGER PROBLEMS THAN SOMEBODY RESETTING THERES.

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Galt
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Re: RESET

Post by Galt » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:46 am

It seems to me as if the people to whom ratings are important are those who have been constantly resetting them.

I would agree, however, that it would have been nice to give you a chance to reset before it disappeared.
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Starlight
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Re: RESET

Post by Starlight » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:52 pm

Galt wrote:Sap, the reason that you have been getting kicked out of games is exactly because of the reset button and provi games being frauds.

I mentioned the other day that I saw 1450 games filling.

Last night I saw a 1350 game fill quite quickly, just like at a normal Spades site. Have you ever seen that happen at HW before? Of course not because of the reset button.

You will now not be getting kicked out of games because there will be games available at all levels and you will be able to find games that are appropriate for you playing ability.

Evil, I understand your concern, but it is probably a price worth paying to fix the problems that have been caused by the endless resetting of nics.
I don't think you do understand the concern Galt. Many good players lose games because of really bad deals or as was pointed out, you get disconnected. I have had games where I didn't get more than a single spade for several hands in a row or at best 2 spades. I also didn't get face cards. Hard to cover a nil partner with cards like that. You end up losing, not because of bad skills, but because of sucky cards. Is this fair? Game after game.

Since you seem so observant, you must have noticed lately, when players boot, many are immediatelyreplaced with a bot. This wasn't near as bad before reset was removed. Neither was throwing of games.

What is a "normal spade site" to you? I played at Flipside (then Sierra) for years and 1300 and 1400 games were considered low and you couldn't get a decent partner. Those are not the norms for good players. Players are still being kicked. Or players leave and make a new table. A lot of players have left or they simply aren't playing. I wait now 30 minutes and more before I sit because I refuse to sit with 1300 and 1400 nics. How is this fair to those of us who average 1700 and up ratings? Taking the reset was 1 of the worst moves Hardwood could make. After all, it WAS part of the game we all bought.

The reset feature was 1 of the few things that made Hardwood attractive and set it apart from other sites.

Now another change. When you go into a game room to say hi, you appear as a "watcher". Three watchers and you don't know who said what. Another feature gone. Why change the person's nic to watcher? That made no sense in my opinion.

Some changes can be good, but not all changes are productive.

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Re: RESET

Post by sandbar » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:23 pm

Now another change. When you go into a game room to say hi, you appear as a "watcher". Three watchers and you don't know who said what. Another feature gone. Why change the person's nic to watcher? That made no sense in my opinion.
This is a glitch which Gromph is working on to fix, and not a change.
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Galt
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Re: RESET

Post by Galt » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:02 pm

Bad deals, bad pards, pards who bid 12 and quit, and anything other thing that players complain about HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RATINGS on nics that are played on a consistent basis.

Everytime that your rating goes down, some other player's rating goes up. Consequently, unless a player is systematically doing something on purpose (such as playing only significant down games or parding newbies) to hurt his or her own rating, there is no way that, in the long run, any of this other stuff can affect a rating.

The only way that this otherwise random crap affects ratings is that it can increase the time that it takes for a rating to reach its own appropriate level.

Think about it for a minute. For every player who contends that his or her rating is lower than it should be because of something that happens at HW, there would have to be another player whose rating is higher than it should be because of this same stuff that happens at HW. It prsents a paradox that makes no sense.

Over time, for everytime that you lose a game due to bad cards, you will win a game due to the other team getting the same bad cards. For every game that you lose because your pard was bad, you will win a game because one of your opps gets stuck with a bad pard, and on and on and on.

This is why some players have nothing but nics with good ratings. They are good players and their ratings always will level out at a good level unless they are not reset everytime that they lose a game. Similarly, the ratings of less skilled players will always level out over time at a lower level. It cannot be any other way because of the otherwise ratings paradox.

As far as not being able to get good pards in 1300 and 1400 games, I hate to break the newsflash, but that is why those games are 1300 and 1400 games.

Ratings are grossly misunderstood by many without training in probability theory, and it causes an amazing amount of needless angst.
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Re: RESET

Post by Starlight » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:59 am

sandbar wrote:
Now another change. When you go into a game room to say hi, you appear as a "watcher". Three watchers and you don't know who said what. Another feature gone. Why change the person's nic to watcher? That made no sense in my opinion.
This is a glitch which Gromph is working on to fix, and not a change.

Thank you Sandbar for telling us this. That is good news. I apologize for jumping to a conclusion. :oops:

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Re: RESET

Post by pro_zak » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:36 am

well a very sad thing I saw tonite. A player came ot me a league and said well guess I have to leave league and hardwood I cant reset and no one will pard me. It appears the low rated players are not that important anymore. By not allowing reset it does take away a feature that was there when people bought the game. Why fix something not broken players were happy with it. When you have hardwood booting you and then in your game they put a bot in and the dealer distribution for instance tonite playing against a 1300 and 1500 rated player with us being 1650s or so was a pass tourney the low rated team got the spades the whole game we had to bag them out then finally set them come to the last hand they got 8 or more spades to our two so how do u win . so our rating drops over 20 points yes theirs went up but I do not want to play against those lower rates anymore becaUse of the card distribution . In smoots later played again three games out of the three my pard and i set the other team who had been getting the cards the whole game the very next hand after we set them they got a 10 bid we got two bid and i could not nill because of two spades high ones so didnt know if i would get one even but my pard got it for me so that moved them back up within twenty of us . The nxt hand they get a 8 bid so no way to win this happens more and more so I lost over 40 points off rating and its not because of my play so now without the rating being 1600 plus I dont get a good game if its below 1600 its so hard to get a pard and to have a challenging game. My pard and I were told the other nite we were bottom feeders becAuse we playing against the lower rates . So the dilemma is do I just not play anymore with the nic if it gets to A certain level. if you play 1650s or 1700 and you playing against like 1550 or so if you lose you lose like 20 points then you beat them nxt game you get 10 back . So if no resets and players down in the 1300s how will they ever get back to 1500 then you wont be able to get games above 1500 it just seems crazy they did this without warning. The booting has been terrible lately . and its not my internet provider because my yahoo still works . Anyway I know I was long winded I am just frustrated especially with the card distribution even had players say well your :( playing above your class they got the cards there was nothing could do . Pro_zak :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: RESET

Post by pro_zak » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:41 am

sorry one more thing after reading Galt the card distribution seems to be in alot of games the rating is the factor of who gets the cards has happened over and over. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: RESET

Post by sapphira » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:12 pm

I have to agree - the low ranked players dont seem to count for much anymore - its not for fun - its purely to get rankings - at least before players like me had some sort of a chance now without reset we dont have a chance.

I also have noticed since the removal of reset that a lot of high ranked players all of a sudden have decided to play with low ranked players. Thus we the lower ranked players slip further and further down - quick way to build up ratings. When they want a hard game they keep lower ranked players out but when they need to build up ratings again they come play with low players. Its not fair.

It is also deterring average players from playing - they see their rankings slipping further and further down with little or no chance of building up again and they leave - already 3 players I know have called it quits since the removal of reset

If its a concern that reset players are dishonest and dont admit - thats easily fixed - why not just put an (R) for reset beside their name and bring back reset - Theres a lot of disheartened people out there now - and at this rate - Hardwood Spades will end up for the good players only

Just my opinion - I for one am quite disheartened by this - seems to me that the good players are being looked after and the low players are ignored.

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Re: RESET

Post by sapphira » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:14 pm

Id also like to reply to something said about games levelling out - i have to disagree that the cards level out.

I played 3 days in a row and the highest i could call in those 3 days was 4. Is that levelling out - while the other 2 players consisently had 6 - 7 or 8s.

Its happened before and the way it is now it seems that trend will continue. We all payed our money to play as it was when we joined. Favouring the top players makes the game almost impossible to enjoy and that seems to be what is happening now.

I payed my money for reset and to have my name displayed if I chose to say hello - that has been taken from me. So what did I pay for - to make the higher ranked players higher and to let the average players slip between the cracks? Most unfair I think

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Galt
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Re: RESET

Post by Galt » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:32 pm

People, if those of you who are agonizing over low ratings would play each other like at other Spades sites, you would have all of the games that you want.

Resetting a rating does not make you a better player. All that it does is put you in games where you will be noncompetive.

Get over the "bad deals". If you play 100 games on your nic those bad deals will even out (it will actually even out in a much lower number of games). This, of course, is only true if you are not persecuted somehow by HW or the laws of probability.

Stop worrying about anecdotal events.

In the past week I have had two pards who thought that they sat at a pass game and bid Nil. I had a pard who bid Nil when we had a 200 point lead and he got set and we lost. I had a pard who made a losing bid in 4th seat on the last hand of the game. I must have had at least 5 games with cards that were so bad that it would have been easier to mail in the loss. I have played some provi games with an 1800 nic.

None of these events affect my ratings, and similar ones don't affect yours either. Pretending that they do isn't the solution.

Over time, the only thing that affects your rating is your ability. If your ability increases so will your rating. If all that you ever do is worry about resetting, the chances of that happening are very very small.
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