Interested in more cool features?

Would you pay for extra online features?

Poll ended at Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:14 pm

yes
25
49%
yes
0
No votes
no
26
51%
no
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 51

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SuicideNil
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Post by SuicideNil » Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:56 am

Hi,

If we follow this idea to one-time upgrade fee.. this is mean that we will have to pay for each others upgrade. Do you really think that a one-time upgrade fees will replace the idea of a monthly fee; not at all. As far as,the membership is good because it wont hurt others players who dont pay.. I disagree; I doubt that any of you can give guarantee about that :!: In fact, nobody can. It will hurt people who dont pay.. That's a Fact.. the only thing who can equilibrate this; is that HW will implent features across the board. I highly doubt that it will happend... because those features could be already in hardwood at this time.. Those features HW want to sell them... and this is why it will hurt people who will not be able to pay...
maxel wrote:
Reina wrote:Having a chance to get more features if wanted, sounds like a good idea. Since it means no harm for the people who don't choose to pay more, then I don't see why not.
If it meant in any way that people who don't pay the extra were going to loose what they have right now, then I wouldn't agree, but this is not the case, so yes I would pay for new features.
Reina is correct. Any enhancement of the site is NOT intented to alienate other users, but simply make it more enjoyable for those who wishto pay an extra fee.

Consider this: If Playsite/Mystic Isle/The Zone wanted to do something like this, or start charging in the first place, do you seriously think that they would have even bothered to ask first?

My example of user fees for various types of software ISindicative of the web and software industry as a whole. Played EverQuest or U.T. lately? User fees. And well worth it.

Without funds, things stagnate. I for one am more than willing to pay more to get more. It's a fact of life, people. I think Jules had the best idea for implimentation: Make it a one-time upgrade fee.

paul
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Post by maxel » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:14 am

It's as simple as this: User fees provide cash for innovation. They pay for the programmers, equipment, materials and bandwidth. Without money, things stagnate or worse. I want to see the sites continue and continue to be enhanced; therefore I am more than willing to pay for that privilege.

paul
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Post by maxel » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:17 am

FYI, Jonas: You need to post this poll in the Hearts & Euchre boards as well.
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Post by Betty42560 » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:43 am

Me again, when I spoke of persons like myself on very limited budgets, I was addressing a monthly fee idea. If it were a one time upgrade fee, I would certainly be more in favor of it. I understand that business need income to expand and even just to stay afloat. Depending on the features offered in the upgrade, even I might penny pinch again to get them.
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Post by SuicideNil » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:46 am

Hi,

it's as simple as this : License owner has paid for the game and this money should leave to innovation. What innovation did we have in hardwood since 1 year? Nothing, Nada.. Players are complaining about cheating, bad behaviors, rating and quitting. What was the HW response??? A link to visite the page of the new solitaire III. That was the response to players repeated request. :!: If you want to sell your product and increase your revenus; You have to listen what your regular " costumers " have to says and improve the game. And if you think that monthly fees lead to innovation... well, you are a little bit naive.

Of course, at the beginning, they will bring fooms and others stuffs.. after 6 months.. Nothing else.. They will gladly take the money in your bank account. relax and probably wait for some complains... I suggest to you to read all the posts in this topic; you will see that player are more annoyed by HW lazyness to resolve problems then to be willing to pay monthly fees for a game ( spades ) who is well underachieved...
maxel wrote:It's as simple as this: User fees provide cash for innovation. They pay for the programmers, equipment, materials and bandwidth. Without money, things stagnate or worse. I want to see the sites continue and continue to be enhanced; therefore I am more than willing to pay for that privilege.

paul
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Post by maxel » Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:44 pm

SuicideNil wrote:...Players are complaining about cheating, bad behaviors, rating and quitting...

Let's address these one at a time:

1. Cheating: What can be done? Specific, usuable suggestions are always beneficial. Just complaints of "he/she is a cheater" don't solve anything, and cause many hurt feelings. Give suggestions for eliminating cheaters. But don't forget, you have to prove beyond all doubt that the person is indeed cheating. Anything else would be simple libel.

2. Bad behavior: It is incumbent on all players to act like adults and BEHAVE in both the games and the lobby. There are a limited amount of lobby guards for all 3 sites, and none of us are here 24/7. Players are expected to take the initiative in keeping the peace, and ban offensive players from their games, and mute as appropriate. A possible fix to this is to take away ALL chat ability from players who have been found to be in violation of site rules regarding behavior for 6 months or so, and color code the nic appropriately. And yes, I know this would "segregate" a class of players from the rest of us, but my personal feeling on it is if you break the rules, you gotta pay the price.

3. Ratings: I don't have the link to the rating FAQ handy, but have run the math in it before. It is an adaptation of the ICF rating scheme as applied to a 4 player game. I have seen many questions lately regarding the large swings in rating during the provisional status. These are normal, and are not really indicative of final placement when coming out of provisional status. I still don't think that 20 games as provisional is wildly out of line with other game sites, but I would support a change to a lower number, such as 10.

4. Quitting: This has been addressed in several different ways over the past couple of years. I find the current solution (player gets whatever the bot/replacement player gets) equitable. But again, please remember that many, many players are still on unreliable dialup connections, and really DO lose connection. Instantly accusing a player of quitting in the lobby is detrimental to the site, causes all manner of bad feelings, and serves no real purpose. I would like to see actual quitters nailed for 50 rating points on a quit, but there would need to be some provision to protect players who actually lose connection.

paul
Age and treachery always defeat youth and vigor.

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[b]Yes I'll Pay ![/b]

Post by ZEUS » Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:37 pm

I don't think I'd pay to have extra fooms or any of the features your talking about. As a guide i really don't play that much. BUT if you had a cool HW backgammon game ~ I'd pay in a heartbeat !

Zeus

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Post by USA_Justice » Fri Nov 29, 2002 5:51 pm

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I had an entire post ready to go, and somehow I was logged off. When I hit submit, it asked me to log back in, but all my text was gone.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I'll try again.
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Post by USA_Justice » Fri Nov 29, 2002 6:05 pm

Cheating

I'll address the cheating again... As long as you are required to determine who is cheating based on what cards are played, then it will always be as you say maxel. There will be accusations gallore, and no proof.

There have been many suggestions on this board to change the cheating from "what cards are played" to "are they following rules". This method would have a definitive way to determine if the rule is being followed. I would never suggest that you can eliminate all cheating, but you can drastically reduce it by taking away the most common methods.

One side note... It is also my opinion that if you simply detect if a person is "away" they can get accused of cheating for using a neutral program. I still say you should detect the program being used. It would eliminate any question for hosts during tournaments, and would reduce accusations even further. Again, if you don't want people to know what programs you're running, either turn them off or don't play in that game or tournament.

Behavior

It goes without saying that everyone must take it upon themselves to act like adults. But, since it's a discussion here, it's obvious that it is a problem. I like your possible solution, although I have heard others that I like too. I am a firm believer that if you abuse a priveledge, or offend others, then you should lose that priveledge.

Ratings

The rating system used is for chess, and it works well for chess. It doesn't work well for card games, due to the uneven playing field. I do think that reducing the number of games required to graduate from provisional would help, but it's a work around of the real problem, not a fix.

Quitting

I like how Hardwood handles quitters. There is only one flaw. If that person's partner ends up winning that game, either with a bot or fill-in player, then they don't get penalized. Most of the time they will even get rewarded. I think if you quit a game you should forfeit any possible rating gain, but lose the points you would have lost had you stayed.
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Post by American Beauty » Fri Nov 29, 2002 6:18 pm

Jonas,

I have always wondered how you could make a living with the one time purchasing agreement, especially when one considers how much time people enjoy here for free. I personally would be willing to pay a monthly fee.

However, this does create a problem that could be devasting and could destroy what we have here. This problem has been mentioned numerous times already, and that is the elitism that would result. Once people feel isolated or snubbed, they will not come. The only way I see around this problem is to start a brand new site seperate from this one. That way those who want to purchase it and play may, without destroying or compromising the sense of family that we now enjoy here.

~ Susan

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Post by catlady » Sat Nov 30, 2002 12:08 am

How about not excluding the ones who dont want to pay from rooms but letting others pay for extra features as they want them. Perhaps a one time fee of $____ for the personal filter or a monthly fee for exclusive rooms characters or fooms. Maybe Create a hardwood league with free access but exclusive stats and features could be available for a one time fee or lots of features available for a smaller monthly fee. That would eliminate the threat of an eliteness among players. Perhaps a feature sold for a one time fee that would show that person how many games their opponent has played and how many of those were abandoned. If that player has a lot of abandoned games on his record then players could be forewarned to be cautious about playing them. This record would have to be from their computer and not just the name they are using though. Most players who are serious enough about the game to pay for extra features with either a one time fee or monthly fee usually arent so eager to abandon games.
As for asking Hardwood to eliminate cheaters or quitters.... My personal opinion on cheating is that unless there were 4 separate rooms set up (one room for each player) with computers but monitored by some means such as tv cameras set up to watch all 4 players that there will always be some who will search and find ways to cheat. Its impossible to stop it entirely. Anything that hardwood could do in regards to cheating would only be as a means of keeping honest people honest..... The hard core cheaters would still find a way.

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Post by spadelover » Sat Nov 30, 2002 12:15 am

I have to say that I know that it takes a lot of work to run a website or gaming site. I think most take for granted the amount of work involved. I think this is great software and worth paying for. That being said, I realize not everyone can pay monthly. Therefore I don't think it should be a monthly fee, but a special fee. Keep up the good work. This is a great place to play cards!

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Post by USA_Justice » Sat Nov 30, 2002 1:05 am

Someone needs to help me, I guess. It seems everytime I talk about cheating someone thinks I'm talking about ELIMINATING it.

You can not eliminate it.

I hope that is simple enough as to not distort what I'm saying.

You can not eliminate cheating.

All I have ever suggested is that you take away the most common methods.

Sigh.
Last edited by USA_Justice on Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SuicideNil » Sat Nov 30, 2002 8:23 am

I agree,

You cannot eliminate cheating; just control it.. By the way, I looked at the poll; On 423 viewers, only 23 has voted... I guess people are made their points :-).. :shock:
USA_Justice wrote:Someone needs to help me, I guess. It seems everytime I talk about cheating someone thinks I'm talking about ELIMINATING it.

You can not eliminate it.

I hope that it simple enough as to not distort what I'm saying.

You can not eliminate cheating.

All I have ever suggested is that you take away the most common methods.

Sigh.
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Post by GypsyRoseL » Sat Nov 30, 2002 10:11 am

USA_Justice wrote:Someone needs to help me, I guess. It seems everytime I talk about cheating someone thinks I'm talking about ELIMINATING it.

You can not eliminate it.

I hope that it simple enough as to not distort what I'm saying.

You can not eliminate cheating.

All I have ever suggested is that you take away the most common methods.

Sigh.
That is pretty clear to me Justice!! Put the utility in Options that tells whether or not an IM is being used by a player, we can use it or not. ... Should we have to pay for this feature?

I stumbled on Hardwood when looking for a new place to play Spades, probably through Google. I was hooked within a couple of days of the 30 day trial and purchased well before my 30 days was up. My MO is: I'm a frequent player, I play almost every day but I have yet to play in tournaments ... I play cutthroat more often than partners. General rule is I do not play at other web sites.

I purchased the game because:
  • 1. No POPUPS or flashing messges of how I'd won something!! (those things drove me nuts at other game sites)

    2. I seriously enjoy the graphics of the card decks, avatars, and fooms. I like the game rooms and how the card table looks like a card table, cards look like cards, almost like being there in person(virtual reality). I know that many of you put those features down on your list to number 5 or 6 but for me it's number 2. Would I pay for more similar features?

    3. Bad behavior in the lobby or during a game should not be permitted, there is no excuse in my opinion. We all signed the TOS when we downloaded the program and each one is responsible for his/her own behavior. Offenders should be delt with quickly and severely - make a statement it will not be tolerated! I thought I paid for this with my initial purchase price.

    4. Variety of different Spade games, regular, mirrors, suicide, cutthroat or partners was a feature not found at my regular card sites. Big plus!! Being able to play with bots when no game is available was another selling point.
The bottom line for me is I would have to see exactly what the bonus features were and how much Hardwood planned to charge for them. Depending of what value I put on them ... a one time fee, monthly or annual fee?

Before knowing what features and how much the charge would be, how can anyone seriously say they aren't interested or say a definate NO? Or say they WOULD pay?

One quick point and then I am done here .... Recently I had a friend with a birthday, I went to many of my favorite free greeting card sites only to find they were no longer FREE. A yearly charge anywhere from $9.98 to $13.98 is what I found. Perhaps we have all benefited from a FREE internet but the reality is operating a business costs money and if the sponsors are turning away or having no ads is important then businesses will have to charge in order to keep their doors open. :cry:
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