Interested in more cool features?

[SuicideNil]

Hi,

That's the problem; they will charge those features when it should be implented across the board. By charging, they will create 2 class of players and 2 class of quality playtime. 1 for the richer 9 exempt of all problems ) and 1 for the poorer ( with cheating, tussle and quitting ).. By the way.. if they charge... you will see license buying drop to 0 ( no one will pay the software price and a monthly fees for an acceptable place to play spades when there is other place where it's free and acceptable ).. Monthly fees are a very short term vision...

Usa_Justice esthablished a very good point arguing that the HW base players is unsiffisant to support a Monthly fees system. Actually, HW players base is sitting aroung, let's say, 400 players. Well, this is pretty low if you estimated that very few of them will pay the Monthly fees. It will, in a view of restoring HW cash flow, change nothing. Hw should, in a first step esthablishe the number of his base player, at least, at 1000. The only problem with that is that you have to sold 600 more license which is virtually impossible at this time.

It's impossible because players who already buy the software are not willing to suggest to their firend to buy it because there is so much issues to resolve. How many topics and reply the HW forum has concerning lots of issues. Sadly, nothing has been done and that's why, and i am pretty sure of this, the license selling has reach a nearly dead point. To make people buy your sotfware; you need 2 solid things : 1- have a software who is the real deal; a software who will make the others been a pale immitation in comparaison of yours. 2- You need credibilty and good reputation which happy players can provide you easly. Quite frankly, i don't think those 2 conditions are reunited right now...

Someone needs to help me, I guess. It seems everytime I talk about cheating someone thinks I'm talking about ELIMINATING it.

You can not eliminate it.

I hope that it simple enough as to not distort what I'm saying.

You can not eliminate cheating.

All I have ever suggested is that you take away the most common methods.

Sigh.

That is pretty clear to me Justice!! Put the utility in Options that tells whether or not an IM is being used by a player, we can use it or not. ... Should we have to pay for this feature?

I stumbled on Hardwood when looking for a new place to play Spades, probably through Google. I was hooked within a couple of days of the 30 day trial and purchased well before my 30 days was up. My MO is: I'm a frequent player, I play almost every day but I have yet to play in tournaments ... I play cutthroat more often than partners. General rule is I do not play at other web sites.

I purchased the game because:

• 1. No POPUPS or flashing messges of how I'd won something!! (those things drove me nuts at other game sites)
  
  2. I seriously enjoy the graphics of the card decks, avatars, and fooms. I like the game rooms and how the card table looks like a card table, cards look like cards, almost like being there in person(virtual reality). I know that many of you put those features down on your list to number 5 or 6 but for me it's number 2. Would I pay for more similar features?
  
  3. Bad behavior in the lobby or during a game should not be permitted, there is no excuse in my opinion. We all signed the TOS when we downloaded the program and each one is responsible for his/her own behavior. Offenders should be delt with quickly and severely - make a statement it will not be tolerated! I thought I paid for this with my initial purchase price.
  
  4. Variety of different Spade games, regular, mirrors, suicide, cutthroat or partners was a feature not found at my regular card sites. Big plus!! Being able to play with bots when no game is available was another selling point.

The bottom line for me is I would have to see exactly what the bonus features were and how much Hardwood planned to charge for them. Depending of what value I put on them ... a one time fee, monthly or annual fee?

Before knowing what features and how much the charge would be, how can anyone seriously say they aren't interested or say a definate NO? Or say they WOULD pay?

One quick point and then I am done here .... Recently I had a friend with a birthday, I went to many of my favorite free greeting card sites only to find they were no longer FREE. A yearly charge anywhere from $9.98 to $13.98 is what I found. Perhaps we have all benefited from a FREE internet but the reality is operating a business costs money and if the sponsors are turning away or having no ads is important then businesses will have to charge in order to keep their doors open.

[MaiyaToo]

We would like to add some more advanced features for the online play but we woudn't be able to add much without charging a small fee monthly.

Would you pay a montly fee for a Upgraded membership status (call it say Gold member...no not gold finger!).

Jonas - I rarely post in Spades, but this deserves a resounding "YES!" vote. SilverCreek is *still* running the best gamesites on the 'net, and to see it continue to grow and flourish is worth a subscription fee or one-time charge... whatever it takes.

Please keep up the good work--and sign me up!
//Maiya//

[Betty42560]

I got HW after a visit home to see family, I have been telling everyone I know about it since and trying to get all my old buds from other sites to come over. Most are "play at the free places" types and the "hook" I have been using is that HW is a one time fee. Now anyone who has played anywhere on line and in face to face, knows you will have cheaters, and those who are "perverts". I do in HW what I do anywhere else, I IGNORE THEM. I mean I like the place, and most of the players so like life I DEAL WITH IT. This is a game, not brain surgery, it is not life or death. As for ratings, I would just drop the hoopla and have it be a simple 5pts for 1st, 4 pts for 2nd, 2 pts for 3rd, and 1 pt for 4th. Have team play as a seperate scoring base with 3pts to each of the winning team and 1pt to each of the losers. No more provisional standing, just jump in and swim err play. A rather simple to state but more than likey not so simple to implement view point, but it is not like ratings really mean squat anyway, they are just numbers on a computer screen that some people take way to seriously.

[mickodie]

You all have some valid points, and what a great discussion. I want to comment on the fact that Euchre players are left out. I posted a link on our message boards to get some input from them here. I have yet to recieve a news letter from SCE. Would be nice to address some of these issues to all the members. Tracking IM users may not be a good option to stop cheating. They have programs out there that allow people to talk to each other without an IM service. I have my IM on all the time so players can contact me if a problem arises. Not everyone has all 3 games and when a Guide is needed, someone has to find one. Ratings are definately over rated but maybe a player shouldn't lose points in the first round. Compared to other sites, SCE does a great job!! Perhaps more guides would help with other concerns voiced here.

[grandmaS]

Ok wow alot has been said since this started.

But something I seriously want to address is some of you say HW has given you nothing since you bought the program, and none of your complaints have been listened to.

Well I'm sorry to have to disagree, but lots of changes have been made, as far as freebies go, they have given you new aviators, new fooms and smileys. They have given you a bigger variety of types of games, ex mirrors, suicide ect.

And on another front they have give the guides some tools to help with other problems. Like we now have tools to censor nicks which are offensive and profiles too.

I don't mind you saying you want more, just hate it when you fail to recognize that they have given you lots. Some of you need to show some appreciation for some of the things they have done for you.

I have already stated that I personally don't like the idea of monthly fee's an upgrade fee, with new buyers having to pay the upgraded price for the program to me would be a much better idea. I love the site and the staff is great and very giving of both their time and talent. I realize it is a bussiness and needs to make money to make it worth doing, so I would pay for an up grade.

I don't feel a card site can be compared to many of the types of sites previously listed by some of you. However I do feel the game is well worth having to use on or off line. I played it with bots off line for sometime before ever coming on line to play.

Sure I would like to see less smut and arguing, I would like to see some of the ones who push the line as far as they can gone. I have purposed the idea in the past of 3 censored nicks in a months time and you get banned for a month. Things like that, however I so maintain that cheating will happen, and take away IM's and they will find another way to do it, those who needed thier IM's for family, work or what ever will be punished not because they were cheaters but because some were and still are.

So once again my vote is for no monthly fee, however I would pay for a one time or even say a yearly upgrade.

[SuicideNil]

Hi Grandmas,

Let me clarify this little thing. When i said Hardwood give us nothing, i was thinking about upgrade. It's not because we are saying that we wait for almost a year to see some changes that HW staff is a bunch of no good. That's the not case; Those people work propably very hard. But, i am very surprise to see those changes appear now and to know that people will have pay for it which will create 2 class of " quality time " play. Personnaly, i don't care if people want to pay for fooms, smiles, even a league. But i really dont want to see new features who CAN IMPROVE THE QUALITY PLAYTIME OF GAME only reserved to people who can pay. That's my only beef..

I saw that monthly fees as a way to " re-capitalise " HW pocket. In my point of view, they should look for new markets and new license buyers. The only way to achieve that is improve the game.. and it need improvements ( which not mean that HW spades is a piece of crap ).. I cant wait to read you and maybe a little Spank of me Grandmas

Ok wow alot has been said since this started.

But something I seriously want to address is some of you say HW has given you nothing since you bought the program, and none of your complaints have been listened to.

Well I'm sorry to have to disagree, but lots of changes have been made, as far as freebies go, they have given you new aviators, new fooms and smileys. They have given you a bigger variety of types of games, ex mirrors, suicide ect.

And on another front they have give the guides some tools to help with other problems. Like we now have tools to censor nicks which are offensive and profiles too.

I don't mind you saying you want more, just hate it when you fail to recognize that they have given you lots. Some of you need to show some appreciation for some of the things they have done for you.

I have already stated that I personally don't like the idea of monthly fee's an upgrade fee, with new buyers having to pay the upgraded price for the program to me would be a much better idea. I love the site and the staff is great and very giving of both their time and talent. I realize it is a bussiness and needs to make money to make it worth doing, so I would pay for an up grade.

I don't feel a card site can be compared to many of the types of sites previously listed by some of you. However I do feel the game is well worth having to use on or off line. I played it with bots off line for sometime before ever coming on line to play.

Sure I would like to see less smut and arguing, I would like to see some of the ones who push the line as far as they can gone. I have purposed the idea in the past of 3 censored nicks in a months time and you get banned for a month. Things like that, however I so maintain that cheating will happen, and take away IM's and they will find another way to do it, those who needed thier IM's for family, work or what ever will be punished not because they were cheaters but because some were and still are.

So once again my vote is for no monthly fee, however I would pay for a one time or even say a yearly upgrade.

[Jonas]

Thanks so far for all the viewpoints so far

I'd like to clarify some things:

If we have a pay service, that would not mean that we won't fix true problems in the system or ever add more fluffy fun stuff to the base free service we offer now. We do that for our fun anyhow It usually falls into the " wouldn't that be neat" when we are thinking of stuff.

The pay stuff would be extra things on top of the base. Some fun stuff and maybe some stuff that we think would only appeal to certain folks ( like I'M blocking or top rating lists based on different criteria that would filter out certain types of play that you might not think is appropriate to be included. All the details aren't really important right now, so don't freak out, just looking to see if folks would be interested in supporting the development of some of these extra things.

On the concern of elitism may making a option to purchase extra service, Out of you that play tournaments using the Case's ladder or Myleauge, do you feel that having the free and paid extra features cause such a problem in those environments? LIke say gold and platinum members. They are honored with a moniker that they choose to get the specail stats and features, but I don't recall ever careing personaly that I didn't. I'd like to know how other folks feel in that regard.

[1TOP MUSH]

I'm primarily a hearts player and tourney director, but I hope I'm permitted to comment on this idea.

I loathe the idea of creating "haves" and "haves not". I can think of few things that would cause more ill will than a few players thinking and acting like they are somehow superior to the others simply because they pay for the privilege. Ick.

That being said, I think Hardwood is about as perfect a site as I have come across (and I have played on at least a dozen other sites). It's a beautiful well-designed site, and from a tourney director's viewpoint, it's the most tourney-supportive site I've ever found.

My two minor grips are the lack of rating icons, and the limited supply of characters (and why are all the women so ugly or so unhappy lookingK?!). My two major grips are lack of voice chat and no personal pagers. Since I was spoiled by MPlayer, I still haven't adjusted to lack of these 2 items, and they are the only two I'd gladly pay extra to have.

Thanks for listening.

[SuicideNil]

Hi Jonas,

First of all, Ty for the clarification : " If we have a pay service, that would not mean that we won't fix true problems in the system or ever add more fluffy fun stuff to the base free service we offer now ". That was my only concern. Of course, if the service is free, i didn't expect hardwood gives funny stuff or others privilege... after all, it's free. Fixing some basic issues will be enough and will help us ton convince people to buy the games and join our great Spades family .

Thanks so far for all the viewpoints so far

I'd like to clarify some things:

If we have a pay service, that would not mean that we won't fix true problems in the system or ever add more fluffy fun stuff to the base free service we offer now. We do that for our fun anyhow It usually falls into the " wouldn't that be neat" when we are thinking of stuff.

The pay stuff would be extra things on top of the base. Some fun stuff and maybe some stuff that we think would only appeal to certain folks ( like I'M blocking or top rating lists based on different criteria that would filter out certain types of play that you might not think is appropriate to be included. All the details aren't really important right now, so don't freak out, just looking to see if folks would be interested in supporting the development of some of these extra things.

On the concern of elitism may making a option to purchase extra service, Out of you that play tournaments using the Case's ladder or Myleauge, do you feel that having the free and paid extra features cause such a problem in those environments? LIke say gold and platinum members. They are honored with a moniker that they choose to get the specail stats and features, but I don't recall ever careing personaly that I didn't. I'd like to know how other folks feel in that regard.

[USA_Justice]

Oh, no, no message system please. There are enough out there that anyone can use.

Jonas, I am aware that there are "gold" and "platinum" memberships in the leagues. I think it helps make my point that I never even considered paying for a member upgrade in that regard. As long as I can play in the tournaments, I have no need to pay more money. I'll stay with my statement that I would be likey to pay an upgrade cost, but not a monthly fee.

Being new to the leagues, I do view the people with gold and platinum memberships as having more priveledges than me. But, I also realize I choose not to join. And, they should get something if they are willing to pay more.

I think the simplest option is to have 2 memberships that are both one time fees. It's hard to know or predict what can happen if you have a membership with monthly charges. Especially when most of the spades web sites are currently free.

[DAA]

Not that anyone really cares what DAA has to say....but I really hope you read this one ;o). I'll be the first to admit, I did not read all the posts in this section....I however did see some good ideas. The question seems to be...Would I pay monthly? The answer is unfortunately "no". I love SCE Jonas, and you of all people should know. I spend every waking moment here:) But the idea of paying even 2 bucks a month just gives me something negative inside. I dont really agree with the idea of adding a big fee on to the initial price of the game, you want to still be able to make the game easily accesible to many. Rack up the price, and you'll lose your number of incoming players. IF I happened to be da Big Dog (yeah right:), Id charge a one time fee for your upgrades...the idea sounds GREAT. 50 bucks maybe? I dunno. Annually or even a Biannual membership? If ya remember...yahoo hearts lost alot of it's members to you when they switched to monthly premiums and even the thought of annual premiums might sound a bit "yucky". I'm not sure...regardless, Im not goin anywhere, and I be danged if someones a gold member and i aint

[KansasOZ]

Well that would kinda be like not reading the fine print when you first bought your key. To ask for money monthly or any other time for an ELITE status would seperate the people more then they already are. Then those that are willing to pay "elite" membership will no longer play those that havent payed. So then that would be taking games from the "unelite" people. So that sounds very unfair to those who have already bought a key. Why not just create other games for people to buy instead of messing with the games now. Isnt the saying "If it isnt broke dont fix it" well isnt that true in this case?


OZ

[mickodie]

I think Jonas should explain it in greater detail before we all jump to conclusions. I bought a platinum membership in Case just for the ability to transfer worthless ladder buxs to players. Not sure why this is such a big decision, you get what you pay for. Put it on your wish list next Birthday, Anniversary, Xmas, or whatever. We have an exclusive club and it is one of the best! Any sport costs much more than this does so I don't understand the resistance to pay. If you wanted a free site you would be still be in the zone. Geesh, get a grip folks. You all like to complain, but there is an old saying--Put up or shut up.

[omni_555]

I agree,

You cannot eliminate cheating; just control it.. By the way, I looked at the poll; On 423 viewers, only 23 has voted... I guess people are made their points ..

The "Viewers" stat is a little misleading. I tried a little "test" on a "low-hit discussion", and every time I went into the discussion and returned to the main screen, the "Viewers" number had increased by 1.

So, that number simply tells how many times the discussion has been VISITED, and NOT how many different visitors have been there.

As for some of the other negative comments that have been made by some people about SCE, I have felt rather uncomfortable reading many of them. Even tho I have some differences in point of view with the SCE staff, I DO recognize that they are doing a very good job and are providing the membership with a very nice place to come to play various games and even to simply socialize. Contrary to what some have implied, I do not feel that they are out to gouge the membership and give nothing in return. My opinions regarding monthly subscription fees are just that - my opinions. I have made it clear that not only do I feel that it would be unfair to impose such a fee on the membership for a variety of reasons, but also that I personally would be looking elsewhere (however reluctantly) for my spades games if such a fee structure were to be implemented. However, I still respect the right of SCE to impose such a fee structure if they determine that this is necessary, but as some have said, it would be a risky venture since how people would react is unpredictable...

[Tonubu]

Jonas and all you lovely Hardwood people,

Frankly, our league currently spends over $600 or more a year for a few of us to have platinum membership on Cases Ladder. I personally spend $125 a year for the privledge of accessing their site.

Build us a league utility through Hardwood and we'll pay you instead.

So far you have proven a reliable site, well tested technology and well thought-out solutions and gaming fun.

I'd rather invest in you.

Felicia (Tonubu) Comfy Corner Cafe - Euchre.