Leaving a game after deal, but before bid

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ChasingMyTail
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Leaving a game after deal, but before bid

Post by ChasingMyTail » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:14 pm

It's been an ongoing discussion in Smoots about players leaving games after the deal, but before bidding. Some feel they should be penalised for doing this, and have their rating lowered.

As it currently works, just based on observation;

You sit, host starts, cards are dealt, you leave, you are not included in the rating, even if you return to the same table. Anyone subbing in that seat will not be included in the ratings either.

Some seem to feel this is 'card shopping', and should be punished, but, in timed/timeout games, you can't see your cards. so how is it card shopping if they leave before their turn to bid?

I think penalising players for leaving is a bad idea, sometimes you're trying to join a game, and the games 'jump', and you inadvertantly join the wrong game. The host starts before you can leave, you should have to play that game? Or, you join a game, wait for a partner, and a player with a bad W/L joins, or maybe it's someone you don't care to play with, and the host starts the game quickly. Again, you should have to play with a lousy partner? (NOT saying there are any lousy partners on Hardwood, this is a rhetorical question)

Some get irate because they are now essentially playing a 3 handed game. Well, duh, leave/Abandon, and go set a new table and start over. Especially if one player bid, and their P leaves, they are stuck with whoever sits. Some people with a twisted sense of humour/ethics will sit in as a sub, bid 12, or a bogus nil, and then leave. Sadly, a lot of peple won't redeal a hand when that happens.

What's the big deal about setting a new table? It's not like you have to pack up the snacks, fold the table, put it all in the car and drive to another room. What's it take, 30/45 seconds for 3 people to agree to start a new game? Oh wait, this is Smoots, getting 3 people to agree on anything in 30/45 seconds is possible, but not probable. People would rather sit and whine "So and So is a QUITTER!!!", like it's a felony, and they're posting an APB.

Anyway, there are many valid reasons to leave a game after the deal, but before the bid, it works the way it is.

Just a question, last year it was changed, it used to be whoever subbed in the vacant seat before bid was rated, why was that changed?

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Sailing_Away
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Re: Leaving a game after deal, but before bid

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:25 am

Regarding the sub being rated, that is because someone has to be on the hook for the seat. If you let the player off the hook who started the game because the cards weren't shown yet, then the player who sits when the first dealt hand is revealed should be the rated player. If that one leaves, they still get the rating change at game's end whether they play to the end or subsequently leave. Future subs after that are not rated.

In my opinion, I think it should go back to having the player seated when the first player sees his cards be the rated player on the hook. Even if the cards are not revealed that were dealt to that player, any bids by opps are also as much part of the game as your cards are, and hence the game has started and all players seated should be the ones on the hook (visible cards or not). The change to make a player unrated until they see their cards (and not showing cards until time to bid) are changes I think to accommodate people who either cheat or are burned by untrustworthy partners. In fact, most complaints about spades play falls into those categories, which makes me wonder why play pards with anyone you don't trust as your partner? Why not just play singles or 3-way where what someone else does only hurts them?
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

ChasingMyTail
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Re: Leaving a game after deal, but before bid

Post by ChasingMyTail » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:03 pm

As currently programmed, if someone is in a seat, and the game starts, cards are dealt, and the player leaves, that seat is unrated for the game, and the player who leaves suffers no penalty. I'm only basing that on how it's worked for me, I've left games pre first bid (because I didn't like the P (rarely), or, usually, had joined the wrong game). I've never suffered a points loss, or a change in my W/L in these cases. Your mileage may vary.

BTW, it's only in 'timeout' games that you can't see the cards until it's your turn to bid. I don't know any REAL spades games where you're prohibited from seeing your cards before bidding. In no timed/timeout games, you see the cards when dealt.

This isn't a bad thing, as I said, many times you may click into a game by accident, because the games 'jump', or you may be waiting for a game, and a partner with a bad W/L sits with you, so you don't want to play them. In my opinion, the host should wait before starting, and ask if everyone is ready. BUT, many hosts are too quick on the trigger to start. If I don't like my P's w/l, I'm not staying, period. Why should I be penalised because the host wants to stick me with a bad player?

I, personally, allow the first opp who sits the option of saying Y or N to their P. I also always ask if everyone is good to go before starting the game.

Best solution I can think of would be an "OK" button, or something similar, which would become active after all 4 seats are full, and it has to be clicked before the host can start. The host could still kick someone who doesn't click it (It'd reset everytime someone leaves). If you leave AFTER you've clicked the OK button, then yes, you should be penalised. In a similar way, there should be something to allow a player to approve whoever sits as their partner as a sub. I know several players (not naming names) who consistenly will sit as a sub, bid 12, or a bogus nil, LOL, and leave. If I see them sit as a sub, I can bet that is going to happen, so no, I would NOT approve them as a partner to me, or for that matter anyone else, if I was the host.

I really don't see the big deal about players leaving before bid, as I said, the remaining players can abandon, and just reset the table and start fresh. It's not like you have to go cut down a tree, saw the boards, and BUILD a table and chairs from scratch. I've seen people sit and ask for a 'sub' for 5 minutes in the lobby and complaining that someone quit. C'mon, just abandon and reset.

SSstar
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Re: Leaving a game after deal, but before bid

Post by SSstar » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:02 pm

I think it's really tough to make rules or penalties to make things fair for 100% of the players. The sad truth is that almost anything put in place to stop one kind of behavior will almost undoubtedly have undesired affects in other situations or scenarios. As we all know, we're playing a game online, and there is no concrete way to make everyone do the right thing all of the time. Period. All we can do is come to terms with that fact and deal with it, or just not play.

There's nothing wrong with talking about it of course and trying to find solutions, but I really don't think there is a whole lot anybody can really do.

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