Better than average quiz

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Galt
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Better than average quiz

Post by Galt » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:48 pm

I just finished this game. I was sitting South. I will add that our team won the game.

Score: Your team 390 Opps 460

East bids 2 and here are your cards...

Spades 5 A
Hearts 3 4 5 9
Diamonds 4 6 J
Clubs 7 8 J Q

What do you bid?
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omni_555
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Re: Better than average quiz

Post by omni_555 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:07 pm

Galt wrote:I just finished this game. I was sitting South. I will add that our team won the game.

Score: Your team 390 Opps 460

East bids 2 and here are your cards...

Spades 5 A
Hearts 3 4 5 9
Diamonds 4 6 J
Clubs 7 8 J Q

What do you bid?
I must be missing something here... The ONLY way for you to win the game from that score is for ONE of you to bid nil - and THAT would have to be your partner since YOU are holding the Spade A.

Further, if you get set on YOUR bid, you also cannot win the game here, and frankly I don't see more than a 2-bid here, even stretching it a little. And if your partner can make a nil with the cards YOU are holding, it would take a minor - no, make that a MAJOR!!! - miracle for the opps NOT to be able to make a 6-bid to overtake you.

Of course, ignoring THOSE little facts, and just going by score, your partner would STILL have to make a nil, while you would have to bid 6 of the remaining 11 tricks, forcing West to bid 6 (anticipating your partner's nil). 6 is the only bid I see here for South, even tho it is a REAL long shot!!!

OK, if we have the bids set up E-2, S-6, W-6 and N-nil, then N/S would have to hope that E/W attacks the nil rather than the 6-bid, cause if they DON'T they will obviously WIN since they should be easily be able to set South's 6-bid!!!

And while the 8 is a stretch, North would likely have to sacrifice HIS nil in order to set E/W.

NO WAY do I see the game ending on this hand. Even if North, seeing the HUGE bid by the E/W team, bids something OTHER than nil (preferably, from South's point of view, ONE), it will not be enough to end the game, although he might help to set the E/W team and take the game NEXT hand.

All right, galt, drop the hammer on me! What am I overlooking here??? Or was this a freak hand that just worked out?... 8)
Playing games should be FUN - seek out your own level! Don't frustrate others unnecessarily. 8)

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Post by MrAnderson » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:41 pm

You must have praid to the Spades God :)

I would bid 2 forcing West bid 4 to outscore you when North is going nil. Although I don't believe that your partner has chances to survive.
Btw: I don't go further in the North bid's nil option. When East bids 2 and you have max 2 there are still 9 possible tricks out there. Chances are great to your partner has at least 4 or 5 of em. So I will look what options you have to set E/W bid. With your cards you have good chances to snipe the kings of E/W in diamonds and clubs.

A 6 bid, like Omni suggest, is not a good bid. It forces you to win 6 and forces your partner to bid nil. And chances might be great that West goes nil. Even your partner bids nil and set himself for gods sake you going down 160 points and E/W just 80 points(Its impossible you win 6 tricks). So the new score would be 230(+bags) to 380.
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Post by omni_555 » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:01 pm

I see your point about the 6-bid being virtual suicide for South, but a 2-bid? What are the chances that West will not have the requisite 4 tricks for the win? To set them at a 6-bid, your partner would have to have 6 tricks in his hand (7 if you consider that you are assured only ONE...).

The only way this could work would be if your bid forced West to overbid (counting on East to have more tricks than he is bidding...) and your partner has a good enough hand to take the bid to 14 (underbidding his OWN hand, of course).

I DO agree that if North bids nil your chances are not good to say the least!!! So, it depends on how West views the situation.

A LOT of bluffing would have to take place here, cause if South bids 2, I don't see this game going any farther...

But I might be wrong... I WAS wrong once... in September of 1965, if I remember... 8)
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Galt
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Post by Galt » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:15 pm

I didn't say that we won the game on this hand.
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Post by MrAnderson » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:50 pm

Okk Omni i will explain the plan I would have:

When I bid 2 I show my pard this is the max bid I have but I also force West to think about his bid. If he bid less than 4 he opens the door for my p to nil. But if he bids 4 we can try to set the 6 bid.
Well you don't have real chances to get more than 2. But, and thats the most important thing, you have the cards to help your p catching the kings of the opps and playing two rounds ping pong (Bleeding spades asap).

Ok now lets look what possibilites you have left: You can bid 1 but this would be fatal cause West just needs to bid 3 to outscore you.

A bid of 3 would be interesting too when I think about it: It would force West to bid 5 to win the game (When he still assumes North going nil). So chances for your team are much greater IF your partner does not bid nil but stretch the total bid to 14.
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Post by SybiL » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:30 am



I am not good at this bidding part, so I will probably be very wrong.

The way I see it, if my pard hasn't bid yet, I would leave it up to my p, depending on his cards. Why? Cause I have nothing, just a 1 sure bid, and impossible nil.

So one of them, either my op or my p, must have a super bid, unless east is bluffing by bidding 2 which would be a terrible play on his part.

Anyway, I would bid just 1, and let my pard decide the bid, depending on west's bid, and I will most probably get yelled at, by my pard, for bidding 1. :lol:

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Post by Galt » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:35 am

Here is a hint.

You have to start your decision making process with a premise about what you want to try to accomplish on the hand.

Premise --- If the opps bid 4 and make 4 on this hand, there is no way that we can avoid losing (even if the opps bid 4 and your pard Nils, if you make your normal 1 bid and the Nil makes, you will still lose on bag points).

What is the probability that the opps have a makeable 4 bid on this hand?
Almost a certainty given your hand.

Consequently, we must find some way to set the opps on this hand.

How can we construct a way to set the opps on this hand?
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Post by SybiL » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:27 am



Well, the way I think it is, doesn't really matter at that point what you bid, but instead the way you play the hand. If op bids 4, the only way to win would be setting their bid, therefore bid your 1 and let your pard do the math, no matter what his bid is, you gotta go for the set.

A way I have seen people do it is, NIL even with the Ace and make them believe you are going for a real nil, that way give your p a chance to set them. But the -100 is sad and I am not sure I'd have the guts :?

Hmmm thinking about it the way you just said.... I could probably bluff and overbid, to force his bid BUT im more inclined to bid my 1 and try to set them anyway. Ok..... im a LITTLE stubborn :roll:


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Post by Galt » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:41 am

Sybil, we are going to give you the cookie!

You must find some way to, hopefully, not only get West to take his team beyond a team 4 bid, but to get the oops to focus on doing something other than making their bid. The only way to do this is to bid Nil.

I did bid Nil and here is what happened.

West then bid 4. This bid does not make all that much sense as it forces our pard to only a 4 bid, which is what my pard bid.

No matter how much sense it makes, at least we got the opps over 4. Hopefully pard has a stronger hand than is shown by his required 4 bid.

I took a club early in the hand, pard did have a strong hand and took 2 overtricks, and I managed to win the Spade Ace.

The score after the hand was Opps 400, Us 334.

We got two nice hands after and won the game.
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