lowman hearts room

maggiemae41
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lowman hearts room

Post by maggiemae41 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:56 pm

I would like to propose a lowman hearts room where the points for the ratings go only to the winner. The 3 losers do not get any points at all. This would promote lowman play, instead of people playing for second and third, which in my humble opinion, is second and third rate play.

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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Aeonian » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:22 pm

I agree with MaggieMae and would like to see the same thing.

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Dust In The Wind
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Dust In The Wind » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:51 pm

I could agree to do that too, I think it would resolve the lowman issue for those that truely like to play it...

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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by sandbar » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:59 pm

I kinda have to agree with this one, not necessarily having a different room, but if only first got points, then a lot of the players wouldn't be arguing, cause they would all be targetting the lowman.
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by PandoraEllen » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:35 am

I also would like to see only 1 winner in a single heart game...When i first joined HH i wanted to bring back my heart playing from long ago,however I didnt understand the 2 place nonsense and got so much flack and verbal abuse that i stopped playing singles.

The verbal abuse in singles game is outrageous and most of the time it is carried out to the lobby about trying 4 2nd place.

I feel that most trial version players have some past knowledge with the game of hearts and must certainly get confused with 2nd place. Add to that they get the verbal name calling and fooming that they get so discouraged they decide not to join us.
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Primal Instincts » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:56 am

Having only one winner would be an interesting concept in all games......but I agree with all about this.....not sure how live games are scored but I do believe there is a 2nd and 3rd place status for those with some type of reward.....

However I do think awarding points to just the winner would discourage those players with a lesser skill and eventually they would prolly just not come in HW at all if there is NO incentive to play....other than to relax and unwind and the simple love of the game of course....which is MY main reason for being in HW......and the camaraderie of friends........

A trial room with this scoring would be great.....after all there can only be "one winner"
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Senality Rains » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:20 am

This is the most intellectual topic i have ever seen for hearts and moreover for hardwood, past or present.
i can see the arguements for both side's, over the left, we have the folk who say hearts should be played as a lowman game, thats true, with the exclusion of spot and JoD , THEY are cut throat game's and you can not dress them up..over the the right , you have no no no NO , hearts is a cut throat game, and a tough game. I place myself in the middle, cos i can do both, and my adrenalin flows which ever way i play, (although if i am honest, in my early days, my intention was stoking up my ratings, these days, i have put my slippers on, and got my pipe out, and i believe with my grey hair , that hearts is a social skilfull game).

I do however believe that the skillful players are in the minority (me listens to the boos and hisses lol)...thats my belief, if i am wrong, i am wrong, but i aint often wrong,,.It is also my belief that the rating structure is what has made hw .hw in the past , and what does make hw what is is now.

So based on all that, i could also go along with a new room, for lowman play,where only first gets points, however, i do not think this would be wise as a general overhaul, firstly cos , i believe most of the players in hw are cut throat player's and secondly, it would ADD another option to the way you can play , rather than remove one, add one, gained no extra options on gameplay, i dont know how easy this would be to put in place, maybe its a case of one or the other, if thats the case, then there is nothing anyone can do , and this delightful debate will rage on lol.

At the end of the day, i love hearts and i will play the game what ever way it goes.
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by maggiemae41 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:06 pm

Thank you all for posting your reply.

I do think it should be a separate room. Those who choose to play cutthroat, can have that choice. Those who only want to play lowman, well they now have a choice as well. Its soooo very frustrating, sitting at a table, trying your best to set up lowman, only to have someone other than lowman dump on you (especially if you have passed appropriately for lowman play!!!) Cutthroat players do not understand the skill involved to play lowman, as it takes no skill at all to dump the queen. Lowman hearts is based on 3 players taking on lowman, a partnership that when played well, means those partners change frequently, hopefully every hand. It affects how you pass, how you lead, and how you play. Sometimes it even means taking the q in order to keep highman in the game!!! If he loses......you lose too.
Unfortunately with the present room, players will often put that highman out, if it means they can get second or can you believe it THIRD.........Sigh.......and then when you try and explain it.......well.......good luck.....been there, no one wants to know.

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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by tech_ceo » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:39 pm

The subject of this thread actually brings together two different issues which are unrelated for the most part; Whether or not there should lowman rules; and if so, whether there should be a separate room for it.

Amid the current differences in opinion on splitting/combining rooms, and the known problems that arise when we are all in different rooms (e.g. some players waiting too long for games), and the possibility of the return of Wizards, the last thing we need right now is another (mandated) room to further divide the players.

I do like the idea of a "Lowman" game, but it should just be another Rule box you can check when setting a game, certainly not a new room just for that purpose.

PS: it should also be noted that there a lot of complex ramifications of making this sort of change. Not technical (that part is easy) but related to how ratings are calculated. We already have many players that want separate ratings for Pard and Singles. With Lowman added in, would we then need a separate Lowman-game rating? If not, we may well be solving one wish, but opening a whole new can of worms with regards to how ratings are calculated, and especially how the ratings for different game-types are aggregated into one overall rating.
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Dust In The Wind » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:02 pm

I think it could be worthwhile room and bet many would venture there, maybe not all the time but would be a room that a lot of player may frequent. I like lowman games and know how to play it well but it is not what I would play all the time, sometimes I like to play cuttroat, sometimes pards, sometimes spades, sometimes euchre, etc.....

I agree with MoD in that this would not be smart as an over the board change, just this one room where winner takes all, lossers lose.... period. Yes you will have those that won't like it because they will not win often and go back to the other rooms but it would be in the true spirit of hearts.

There are some players that would love this format and I do not think it would take away from the main rooms but would be enough in it's self to say the least be interesting, I would play there because I like that kind of competition and they can be very intense games.

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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Lace » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:36 am

Right now, points are awarded to two people at the table in both singles and pards. By changing points to only one winner, I take it this new room request is only for singles/lowman. In singles now, you have a 50/50 chance to win points (either first or second if your ratings are fairly equal). In the scenario of going to only 1 winner, you then drop the win percentage down to 1 in 4 for singles and you're still at 50/50 for partners. While thinking of the idea, I have to wonder if this would force more into playing partners than singles since your odds at gaining points are doubled?
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Senality Rains » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:36 am

yes Lace, which is one reason i personally think a complete overhaul would not be wise, Hence folk still have the choice, rather than being forced into partners. :)
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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Honor of Ono » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:38 am

Great Post Maggie, you touching on a lowman system touches on what I think is the most flawed concept in a overall great HardWood hearts site, and that is the ratings system. When people are dumping for 2nd (and sometimes 3rd place) fine, I can respect your way of play while at the same time I strongly disagree with it in my opinion. Yet this same rating system that encourages this kind of play with some, also throws totally out of whack the scoring with pards vs singles play as current constituted. I mean, something is seriously wrong when pards almost generally all have the highest ratings, isn't it? I mean this isn't rocket science. I see pards over 1800, I am sorry that is virtually impossible for a singles players playing straight no spot to 100 pt hearts. If one is over 1700 in singles play, that is excellent, and not many can do it I have found. This is not to put down pard play either, I have a lot of respect for them and thier skill to play the game. Yet, it is seriously flawed with the way this whole set up is made with ratings, and I am sorry Mod i strongly disagree the system needs to be overhauled for this. If this is what made Hardwood Hearts, my gosh. Times change, things improve for the better (just like the changes with the rooms right now) and it certainly is time for a change with this relic rating system. I don't know if this is feasible Jonas, but I believe I speak for many who would really like a change to how ratings are determined. I honestly believe it will improve play (and enjoyment which is the best part), and even out the vast advantage pards have over singles players with ratings concerned.

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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by Jonas » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:50 am

Honor of Ono wrote:Great Post Maggie, you touching on a lowman system touches on what I think is the most flawed concept in a overall great HardWood hearts site, and that is the ratings system.
We're pondering actually spiting the ratings (not the rooms) of Partners vs Singles, in that case would this rule change be necessary?

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Re: lowman hearts room

Post by maggiemae41 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:17 pm

Thanks for participating all.
"Honor of Ono" I sure love that name, it certainly fits this discussion.
Yes Lace, lowman hearts is a singles game, it is best played with the regular and jack of diamonds(my personal favourite) versions with 1 point scoring for a heart, 13 for q, -10 for jack(ie not spot) Spot heats played lowman, is quite difficult with the greater variation in accumlated points.
I am convinced that it would be best to have a separate room for this type of play. Lowman players are very serious about their game and really are not interested in playing anything but lowman. I know many people that do not come to this site for that very reason. The frustration level gets way to high.
People that dont want to play this type of game can stay in the other room.
You might even find that tensions in the room will go down because the two types of play, cutthroat and lowman have been separated.

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