Is Silver Creek a Con

TheBabbler
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Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by TheBabbler » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:24 pm

Can somebody please tell me why Silver Creek ban players for filing reports. Is this a money scam. The support office just ignore all correspondance. Or is this against non American players? Please advise

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Sailing_Away
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:51 am

In my time playing here, this is the first I have ever heard the allegations that:
1) SCE bans players for filing reports, or
2) SCE has a bias against players from outside the US.

The truth is, filing reports is the best, most recommended way to resolve issues with other players or individuals creating havoc. As much as filing of reports is promoted, I cannot see any reason why SCE would ban anyone for doing just that. If a ban occurred as a result of filing a report, perhaps it was evidence contained in that report that led to the ban, but not the filing of the report itself.

Also, I happen to know that there are a LOT of players here from all over the world. The list of nations I know are represented here is even a subset of the actual list. Many are players in good standing, and some guides even are from outside the US. Some tourneys are hosted from Europe. If such a bias existed, then the demographic composition of this site would be drastically different.

I am afraid the truth counters your claims in a drastic way.
-Brian

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Mr 3000 Nics
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Mr 3000 Nics » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:03 pm

I've been playing on this site an awefully long time but if i remember the TOS when i first downloaded this game and and agreed to the TOS it says if you file false reports you could be banned.
And That's The Bottom Line cause the bald guy with white sideburns SAYS SO ... just ask Sandbar hehe...

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Sailing_Away
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:34 pm

Mr 3000 Nics wrote:I've been playing on this site an awefully long time but if i remember the TOS when i first downloaded this game and and agreed to the TOS it says if you file false reports you could be banned.
Filing false reports.... that's a different matter than just filing reports.

Though not sure what that means... a report is a report, yes? What makes a report false?
-Brian

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Primal Instincts
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Primal Instincts » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:18 pm

A report is considered false if the content is false......pasting a players name then adding adding false comments to it......IE..... Joe Bot:....curse curse curse.....then filing that.....or just filing untrue statements..... 8)
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:52 pm

Chalk that up to my ignorance then about what filing a report entailed. I thought the system recorded information that could not be falsified. I didn't know the game logs were manually provided by the one doing the reporting.

Manual anything = prone to error and fraud.
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Unicron
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Unicron » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:37 pm

Hello,

Although we do have multiple staff that go through the reports, I look at the majority of them. I can assure you we don't ban people for filing reports, and certainly would never ban someone based on their country of origin. Silver Creek is quite proud of the wide range of people that play on the site, some of which participate with us as Guides.

There have been situations in the past (none I can think of within at least the last 12 months) where someone was banned for abusing the report system. In these cases the person was filing multiple baseless reports in a row (SPAMMING) or was filing reports with the intent to abuse the support staff (i.e. leaving us really nasty messages via the report system). Even in these cases it had to be pretty severe for us to actually remove them from the game for it. Also on occasion someone will file a report against someone after having done something wrong themselves in the situation (i.e. complaining so and so was cussing at me when you were cussing at them as well). We read all the chat involved so sometimes we have to take multiple actions, occasionally even involving the reporter. So might not be a bad idea to keep in mind that if you are doing something you shouldn't be and file a report, we might see it.

As far as correspondence and reports go, we don't respond to reports via email unless we need some additional information from you to complete the report or it was a technical or support question. You will never hear for example if we banned someone via a report. On the other side, email's sent to us are always responded to by the support staff unless (again this happens very rarely) it is used for abuse.

Another clarification on reports, there is no attaching of gamelogs involved with the reports. If you file from within the game, the game number is automatically included with the report but if you are not filing from the game the problem occurred in, that information would be useful. Generally speaking the most effective reports include the accused persons name, exactly as spelled in the game, a brief explanation of what happened with maybe a line or two of chat, and the correct choice for the type of issue (i.e. support, problem player, profanity, etc.).

Anywho, the big point is we certainly don't ban people for filing reports or living in places that are not the US. That's probably more information than you asked for, but there you have it.

Jason
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Unicron
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Unicron » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:46 pm

Primal Instincts wrote:A report is considered false if the content is false......pasting a players name then adding adding false comments to it......IE..... Joe Bot:....curse curse curse.....then filing that.....or just filing untrue statements..... 8)
This also happens on occasion, but to be honest I can't think of any time I banned someone for it. It's pretty easy to tell a BS report when you go through the chat, and I guess if someone did it often enough it could lead to a suspension of some kind, but I can't think of anytime I had to do that off hand. Also, people make mistakes and sometimes we just remember things differently than it happened. That is just human nature and something you have to take in to account when reading reports.

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U.S. Marshall
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by U.S. Marshall » Thu May 27, 2010 2:03 pm

we are all confused as to why something has not been done about this situation, and another 1 also.
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:55 am

Kroebi,

If I were to summarize Unicron's posting, it would be 1) everything is read and handled appropriately that is sent to SCE, 2) the appropriate action may not be what the sender thought it should be, and 3) you will never be told what SCE did to resolve a situation.

That said, your pointing out what another player you named by name did on this message board (which I am surprised has stuck as long as it has considering how SCE is opposed to players bashing other players in the lobby or on the boards) looks to me like a conspiracy theory. Unless there is some kind of supporting evidence that there is some kind of collusion, the scenario you describe can be explained a completely different way. Here, we have a high rated player who doesn't mind playing games with anyone, and chooses to risk his high rating by playing low rated and upgrade players (anyone can beat anyone once in a while, and many points can be shaved off a near-1900 point rating if you lose to a 1300 player). It is not unusual though that the low rated player ends up taking the Queen of spades a lot, either from little experience or poor strategy or because the needs-to-upgrade player is playing cut-throat, not lowman.

People have bashed high rating players for not being willing to play low rating players because they have to keep their ratings high, so in this case, when a high rating player plays people of low ratings or no ratings, suddenly it's assumed to be cheating? I also can't see several someones involved wasting their time, one who must play lots of games against low rated person or persons, but also, who would find it fun to be that low rated player with multiple nics whose role it is to throw games to help someone else? I find it implausible that there would be people willing to waste their time to help another player build up an incredibly high rating artificially. Then what does that player with the high rating get for it? There are no prizes, monetary or otherwise, and if the rating was not earned, it would quickly fall once he/she played "honest" players.

That said, if you filed a report, I am sure SCE at least checked out the claim to see if there was any merit to it, such as whether or not the guy was playing himself on two different computers or something provable like that. I am sure your complaint was not ignored. I am afraid your theory doesn't hold water.
-Brian

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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Primal Instincts » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Several years ago in gnomes in spades I watched two players ( male and female ) constantly play together....I never thot anything about it...he had a very high rating and she did not....after seeing a player announce in ther lobby that they were cheating I decided to go watch the game and sure enough they were cheating and admitted it saying so what....the very next game they played I watched also only this time I got a guide to come in and watch quietly at the same time and I asked as a watcher if they were cheating....they said yes and laughed.....and again said "so what"......only this time the guide answered and threw them out of the game and went right to staff......they were banned and I have never seen them since....at least under those nics....

So in this case a low rated player was helping a high rated player get even higher...and their web profile also showed the evidence....it was the first time I have ever actually witnessed cheating in HW...and got them caught on the spot thanks to the guide willing to come in and watch.....it was also the last time in 9 years at HW I have witnessed for myself actual cheating.....Im sure it goes on daily I have just never seen it again as blatant as that...
8)
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by U.S. Marshall » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:50 pm

Unfortunately the 1 in question here is blatant and I have sent in a dozen reports myself after watching his games,, There are times when the entire lobby is going on about this player and 1 of his upgrade nics that he plays with will antagonize the lobby bragging about how awesome The B........ is at hearts. I know the rules myself about naming players and so on but this has went on for entirely to long, and there is another 1 that I have been reporting as well as a guide reporting and kicking her out of her games even .
But Kroebi you do have to understand that silvercreek cannot Ban a Player cause he gets accused of cheating by a few players or once in a while, It does have to build up against that player and I hope that a skilled hearts player from admin would watch some games also. Because ( and I am not trying to blow my own horn ) I am pretty good at partner hearts and I and my main pard and other pards also have been accused of cheating several times over the years, we know that we don't cheat and we have never been accused of cheating by higher rated players but I guess it appears that way to some less experienced players.
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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:45 pm

Guess if he is known to be a cheat by most everyone here, including guides and greeters and close friends of both, I stand corrected about the theory not holding water.

I still don't understand why someone would spend the time and be proud of it. I also don't understand mass murderers either.

Book 'im, Danno!
-Brian

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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by psunuke » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:02 am

I'm a bit behind on this post and it has digressed to talking about a certain accused cheater. FWIW, about 5 to 6 years ago I caught on to something exactly as you describe, only on a much larger scale. Also FWIW, i've been accused so many times of cheating I can't even be bothered trying to keep track. However, back to my little story. I noticed a pretty much "GOD" player in both singles and partners. I believe I had a clue who the player was but they were now pretty much unbeatable. I noticed some sketchy play and tried to do something about it. What I ended up finding out (to my own level of proof) is that this player had many nics and a system whereby the highest nic was being fed by lower ones. His 1900's/2000's would play w/his 1800 (and 2 unsuspecting players) and then the 1800 help him win. the 1800 would lose some pts obviously so later the 1800 would play w/a 1700, and the 1700 help the 1800 win . . and so on and so forth. I looked through the previous games info to see the player had a fairly large but not huge number of people where there was always a tag-team of 2 of these nics together. The player had such a ridiculous record that I often tried to play w/the person as I feel I'm good enough to win even w/cheating at times and I can blemish the record a little bit while losing often. My other motive was to gather game-logs. At this time I gathered several and found some obvious and blatant red flags. Soon after this player would kick me if he knew I was there. I'd often log in and watch the games then to get the game-logs with an unsuspecting nic and found many more red flag plays. I reported several times and felt nothing was being done. In the end I believe (but am not certain), that this player got in some trouble for this and hope that I had helped and all the time I spent doing this was not worthless. I don't think I'd ever go to that level again as I don't care quite so much now, but I still hate cheating so much even in inconsequential things that it may drive me to it again if the opportunity presented itself. Keep on reporting people and gathering information and explaining exactly why the play is suspect, eventually the mountain of circumstantial evidence should mean something.

psunuke

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Re: Is Silver Creek a Con

Post by U.S. Marshall » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:24 pm

Well now 1 in question is making names with a upgrade account and playing them, another I have seen has 2 paid accounts. If you click on the top 25 players at least 4 will stand out as having only played singles games but always with the same 2 or 3 pards in the last 25 games showing. UI was going in and watching their games and then reporting them but now they watch the game window constantly and if you so much as go in their room they vote to kick you so none of us are able to report them anymore either. I'll be damned if I will join their games and let them win points off of me just so I can report them.
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