Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post Reply
User avatar
sandbar
Guide
Posts: 5634
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:16 pm
Location: AUSTRALIA

Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by sandbar » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:58 pm

Rod's computer crashed he will update this when he gets back online, in the meantime, here are some stats from the game........

Here’s the results:



Jojo wins, Froggy 2nd, Larry 3rd, and Mary 4th



Pards: Vesna and minifee wins, Froggy and Stewart 2nd
Image

jondalar
Active Poster
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:11 pm

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by jondalar » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:29 pm

Sandra,

BIG HUGS for posting these results. I'm so sorry for not having a better posting; however, my PC is back to being operational and I promise complete write-ups next week.

Congratulations jojokim for winning last night's Reverse Tournament. The finals was a very good game and you played extremely well. Also, good job to froggy for coming in 2nd place, Larryboy for finishing 3rd, and Mary for coming in 4th.

Also, congrats to Ves and minifee for winning the Pards tourney. Froggy and stewart put up a good fight but the night, pards-wise, belonged to their opponents.

User avatar
larryboy1956
Guide
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by larryboy1956 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:31 am

Hi,
I've been wondering why is there modification when a player does a safety shoot? Moon's need to be avoided no matter what so wether it's a safety shoot or a regaular raise of the other players....why special treatement?
Image

jondalar
Active Poster
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:11 pm

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by jondalar » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:46 pm

Larry,

The reason why is because high score wins. The software only recognizes the opposite, so if you moon, and the resulting moon puts someone over 100 points yet some other player is still below you, then this becomes a safety shoot because in a regular game of hearts (not Reverse), it cannot be that you shoot the moon but still lose. In Reverse, it's completely the opposite. We WANT you to shoot the moon because that's 26 points to us. Now, if I'm sitting with 74 points or better and you moon, then I will win a Reverse game because I reached 100 before anyone else.

Hope this helps clarify your questions.

Cheers

Rod

User avatar
larryboy1956
Guide
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by larryboy1956 » Sat May 02, 2015 6:49 pm

I understand what you are saying but I just don't see the logic about it; if someone has 95 pts and does a safety shoot, tough noogies...he goes down..he shouldn't have mooned! Wether every one else goes up or the shooter goes down, it all seems okay cause the mooner is penalized one way or another!?!?
Image

jondalar
Active Poster
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:11 pm

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by jondalar » Sat May 02, 2015 7:03 pm

I think we're having a disconnect. When the shooter does a safety shoot, he/she LOSES. The person that had the highest score when the safety shoot took place (he/she must have at least 74 points) wins the game! High score wins! There cannot be a safety shoot in Reverse when high score wins! As TD, I need to know when a safety shoot takes place so the game can be properly ended and the right person given credit for the win. The software as it is now, simply does not know this and awards the mooner minus points.

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by Sailing_Away » Sat May 02, 2015 7:35 pm

I don't understand, jondalar, what you mean about the game having a winner when no player is over 100 pts yet. In a safety shoot scenario, the game still proceeds. It's bad for the mooner in a reverse hearts game since he/she wants a higher score and just lost 26 pts, but as no one else got points the game has not ended and a winner cannot be declared until it is over.

As Babe Ruth said, "it's not over 'til it's over".
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

jondalar
Active Poster
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:11 pm

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by jondalar » Sat May 02, 2015 9:03 pm

Brian, we're talking about Reverse here. The rules of the game state that the high score wins. A moon ALWAYS gives the opponents 26 points. The Hardwood software has NO idea we are playing reverse so when someone moons and that moon will result in someone other than the mooner winning, the software awards the mooner -26 points. In normal hearts, that is acceptable. But this is Reverse, and in Reverse, a moon is a moon is a moon. No matter what, the moon results in EVERYONE getting 26 points nullifying the safety. That's why the game ends, because EVERYONE but the mooner gets 26 points. So the person with 74 (or higher) that forced the safety in the first place wins because he reached 100 before everyone else.

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by Sailing_Away » Sun May 03, 2015 5:58 pm

Guess nothing stops you from making that a tourney rule to end the game in such a situation where someone safety shoots if the alternative of adding 26 would have put someone over (winner). If that's your tourney rule in reverse, then all playing should be clear about that so there are no arguments afterward.

If that wasn't a tourney rule, it should be decided whether or not to make it one or to live with the fact that a safety shoot is possible and will prolong the game. Your tourney's decision on that will make it final to avoid future arguments of whether or not the game was over.
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

User avatar
larryboy1956
Guide
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by larryboy1956 » Sun May 03, 2015 6:29 pm

I really don't agree nor see the logic in that system but it's okay, I will live with it. Safety shoot or not, it becomes a penalty for the mooner and that's fine. In reverse, we have to avoid mooning at any cost cause normally, you see the others go up except you OR you see your own points drop which is also okay. Sorry, I just don't get it ! lolll
Image

jondalar
Active Poster
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:11 pm

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by jondalar » Tue May 05, 2015 6:02 pm

Reverse rules have no safety shoot. Safety shoots are designed for regular hearts. If we were in an environment where the software did not award a safety shoot to a player when another player had 74 points or higher, then that player with the 74 or higher point score would win because he would have reached 100 points by being awarded the 26 for YOUR moon. I'm not sure how to state this any clearer. The Hardwood Hearts software is designed for a shoot game, not a Reverse game. I think your hang-up in on a safety shoot. But again, remember, safety shoots are designed for regular hearts games, and that is our limitation playing Reverse using Regular Hearts software. Anywhere else other than Hardwood Hearts, your moon would give me 26 points and if I'm sitting at 74 or higher, your moon would put me at the 100 point threshold (remember, high score wins), and therefore, giving me the win.

Let's look at it this way, since mooning in Reverse is a detriment (we all agree to that?), because everyone but you is awarded 26 points, and oh-by-the-way, high score wins, then when players are sitting at 74 or higher and you moon and you are NOT going to win as a result of that moon, then why is your moon now a good thing where YOU are awarded a safety? Throughout the game, your moons are detriments, but now you're being awarded for a moon. Doesn't pass the logic test. Again, we're dealing with a program that awards safety shoots in non-safety shoot games such as Reverse.

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: Reverse Tournament: 25th April 2015

Post by Sailing_Away » Thu May 07, 2015 8:46 am

Sounds like what we really need is a game setting option for "reverse" hearts that then functions based on whatever the standard rules are for that variant (such as announcing the highest score as winner and not awarding safety shoots).
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

Post Reply