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Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:14 pm
by Wendywoo
I felt I needed to post about the ratings system which makes the games farcical. I am back playing at other sites simply because the rating system means players play not to be 4th!. They think being 2nd is not LOSING because they get points. I find this spoils the game. I try to win every game by finishing 1st. 2nd is LOSING whether you get points or not. The last game I played here the player in 3rd gave the lowman the Jack so he could be 2nd and making me 3rd, instead of playing properly and trying to win. When I questioned him his reply " I beat you".How can you lose and beat someone? Only at Hardwood. I find this mentality which is all too common at Hardwood frustrating and feel the games are so pointless when people play like this. If you finish 2nd at Poker you lose you money and the game. Surely finishing 1st is the point of playing games.
goodbye and good luck to anyone who plays like this. Not for me thankyou

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:27 pm
by gary
i think u are over reacting i certain games there is a player that never gets a heart or a queen in this instance if im 3rd and have no hope for 1st i will try for 2nd enjoy ur games on other networks cause i have yet to find anything to beat hardwood and i would think ur the 1 missin out not us

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:33 pm
by omni_555
This is not the first thread to bring up this topic. Personally, I find that when I am playing a game, I TRY to aim for a first place finish, but I do not consider it a total "loss" if I finish in some other position. I guess it is a matter of the individual player's mentality when playing the game.

In very FEW gaming or sporting events is second place considered a "loser". Olympic events have medals for first, second and third place finishes. Golf tournaments have awards or prizes for runners up to the overall "winner". And so it goes...

Sure, I agree that it makes for a better game when players don't INTENTIONALLY play for other than a first place finish, but there are times when, like in your example, it is a strategic move to maneuver for second when the choice is obviously for second or third. Now, if that player could have PROLONGED the game by making a different play, it would have been a BETTER move for him and the other players (other than the ultimate winner, of course!).

The narrow view that first place is the ONLY acceptable goal is something that, IMHO, actually SPOILS a lot of games, especially when a player gets knocked out of second place and back into fourth because of a good play on the part of the player who usurped him. Sometimes a first place win is not a practical outcome, and so the other players must look at their situation and decide what will be in their best interests.

As an example, in one game I was playing I remember being in third place (South) and holding the Q Spades and the 4 Diamonds. I knew that there were 2 low Spades still to be played, and had the choice of dropping the Q on the second place player (North). The fourth place player (East) had ALREADY gone over the game score (and the JoD was already gone), so the game was over. I was looking to salvage the best position I could from the game, so I dropped the Q and the game ended with me in second place rather than third. In this case, the only other thing I could have done would have been to hold the Q hoping to drop it on the first place player, thus dropping HIM back to second and advancing North to first, leaving ME still in third. A no-brainer as far as I was concerned...

Anyway, the game is the way it is. Complaining that people play for position rather than just for first place is pretty much a futile activity. The rating system rewards a player for finishing in third place over fourth, and second over third, so this attitude is not likely to change anytime soon since there is not a lot that can be done to change the rating system.

For those who want a "pure" game where only the first place finisher has any bragging rights, select your like-minded players and have a social or unrated game! 8)

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:33 pm
by Wendywoo
The only thing I am missing out on his fancy graphics, I prefer playing an INTELLIGENT game which I feel is impossible here at the moment

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:48 pm
by Just_Ice
omni_555 wrote:For those who want a "pure" game where only the first place finisher has any bragging rights, select your like-minded players and have a social or unrated game! 8)
Not impossible. One way was just given.

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 4:24 pm
by Primal Instincts
Sometime's Im havin such a good time just playin the game with my friend's...I have to look in my profile to see where I finished when the game was over because I wasnt really payin attention...dont get me wrong I play to win...but I also play to enjoy myself and spend time with good people....... 8)

Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:29 pm
by sandbar
Primal Instincts wrote:Sometime's Im havin such a good time just playin the game with my friend's...I have to look in my profile to see where I finished when the game was over because I wasnt really payin attention...dont get me wrong I play to win...but I also play to enjoy myself and spend time with good people....... 8)
:D Exactly how I feel, Primal, I just love the interaction with the peeps I play with, the only time I take notice of the scores is when I have the darn queen and I look to dump her on the lowest, or second lowest in some cases if I can't get the first, and what is wrong with telling the winner, "nice win" it doesn't hurt, and it makes them feel good :D


Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:40 am
by psunuke
I believe there is not really an "issue" here. It is described how 2nd and 3rd can be rewarded, and that is a choice according to the rules of the particular competition. I don't believe there would be a strategic jockeying for second however if the same result was given to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, so I think that pointing out good play for 2nd is a moot point under the this train of thought, and where this train of thought comes is from the original version of hearts where 1st place is the only winner.

That said, I don't think either way is wrong per se, but I think that it CAN and WILL change how different players play. A great player will adjust his playing style to suit the particular game at hand, understanding how others will more than likely do so as well.

Another example of this I would have to say is the fact that spot hearts is much more prevalent at HW than reg (original) hearts. At face value it looks like the same game just different points awarded for the hearts and QS, but really I believe good players play quite differently and pass quite differently when playing a reg game or a spot game. Let me elaborate. If you have "bad" hand . . . lots of high and mid cards, no chance to shoot unless the hand of god comes down and saves you, and you have to decide what to pass, well, I think good players will be more likely to throw all their junk away (or as much as they can) in a spot game simply because the penalty for keeping it is much worse.

If you keep more "SAVE" cards in spot and you take a big trick lets say A,J,10,9 of hearts, you have totaled 44 points out of 154 or . . . 28.6% of the points of that hand, whereas in a reg game you have 4 out of 26 or 15% of the points. (you are keeping the high value cards instead of a flat weight distribution) So keeping save cards is a riskier proposition in the spot game which I believe leads to more moon shooting, not because of poor play but because it's a different game and the risk/reward is different.

Where am i going with this? I'm just simply trying to argue that the two trains of thought on the scoring are ok, but are different games, and the player should assume the responsibility for understanding this difference and either adapt to it or play elsewhere as suggested. (Personally this took me a long time myself to accept as I believe there is only one winner, but in time I have learned that it is a different game and one must just accept that fact.)

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:41 am
by gary
i dont think wendy wants to take in any1 elses opinion and has her mind made up and she dont want a debate on it so y bother posting it in here at all

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:09 am
by psunuke
Perhaps wendy is not the only person reading this, and maybe she'll actually think about things, then again maybe not, that's the beauty of a forum.

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 1:30 pm
by Wendywoo
All I can say is
Are Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Carl Lewis, Mike Tyson to name a few happy being 2nd? They get rewarded by being 2nd too but they are winners so the answer is a resounding no.

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 1:38 pm
by gary
lol i think jack nicklaus would be happy with 100th at the minute and mike tyson happy to get a fight

ur missin the whole point wendy enjoy heartin on yahoo i for 1 wont miss ya cause all u do i whine at tables

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:53 pm
by Wendywoo
No Gary You have missed the point completely, I was obviously naming those particular sportsman in their prime and as for accusing me of whining in games, you don't know me because I don't use this name in games. So please don't make assumptions unless you are sure of your facts

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:46 pm
by Dust In The Wind
One thing that should be noted is it is not cool to attack another in the game site or here.

We all have strong feelings as to how the game should be played and I for one was a strong reg/orig hearts player but have learned to adapt and learned how to play all the variations offered here and love this site because of that. Each variation requires its own strat. and being able to change your play makes you stronger in the game you really like because of the diff. in the games you learn other ways to better your strag. in it.

Awarding for 1st only what you see for the game in 1st place gets the most, 2nd is runnerup and gets a percentage, 3rd may or may not get the door prize and 4th gets ya nothing. I been in games where 2nd didn't get you points.

But Bottom line is........ hhhmmmm how can I change those points into cash so I can buy a money tree and grow into riches........ doesn't work does it so......... JUST HAVE FUN and ENJOY the GAME as it is........ A GAME. When you win YAHOO when you don't DARN.... savor the time you got playing something you enjoy..... at least I hope so.


PS - I lose, I play another, I win, I play another, I get second, I play another and at the end of the day I CAN SAY..... "I had a GOOD time"

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 8:14 pm
by Sterlingchick123
yes, its been in forum before and even mr. tournament man, Joe Andrews confirmed that "low man" is the way to play singles hearts games. mr. jonas agreed, and we were gonna have time for a change, as i recall. then nothin happened.