What would you do?

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Dust In The Wind
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Re: What would you do?

Post by Dust In The Wind » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:22 pm

I agree here too since knowing you give the lead to your pard (who ordered you anyways) to take the lead and play his strength if he has one left can lead to all sorts of different situations but the MOST logical here is to give that pard the lead knowing the probability he/she holds right and has one more strong lead which you could opt to trump or not dependent upon the lead back other then diamond. The odds are in their favor to have a high diamond to take the trick, so diamond is not what I would call odds play, where going to pard is higher odds on them having a high play in ANY suit other than D's.

The other thing that could have played out in the hand you had was he came back with the Heart (Q) and you trumped and nothing on cover for the last card Diamond. I have seen many times when a player is set with 2 cards trying to decide which one to throw off and which one to keep throws the wrong one (50-50 shot here and maybe less with some logic or paying attention) and makes that 10 boss. You didn't know at the point what your pard had and the logic dictated (in my opinion) your play as done. Would it have made a difference if you had lead the 10D.... nope last 2 are yours... but odds dictated going to pards lead. If pard did not have the right then I scratch my head and wonder why they ordered me and play my last spade in hopes they throw the wrong card and make my 10D boss.

I too will lead offsuits when in doubt of taking my points on a risky call and may even lead it 2x to empty trump (IE: AK hearts Right QA trump KorQ of other). I don't really have a direct charge that would not be risky. My pard isn't going to trump my AH unless left throws trump on ace (if he/she can) but the object is to pull trump to get my 3 and 5 if it passes. If that AH makes it odds are I can pull 2 or even 3 trump on next lead with the KH of go with the Right trump lead and see where it falls. Some say bleed trump all the time first. I don't call all the time where I can bleed trump to make the hand. Do I call risk hands all the time... nope that would be foolish and even if you only get euchred 25% of the time it takes 12 points to get 9 and a lot more hands to get there.

I look at risk calls as 1 from the partner and hope they expect the same from me (why we are partners). It doesn't work all the time as anyone that has been playing this game for any length of time can tell you. The more hands you play in a game the more of a chance you will lose it on a loner, yep you could win it that way too.

JUST DUST
TO BE OR NOT TO BE..... NOW WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT??? TO BE OF COURSE!!!!!

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Re: What would you do?

Post by The Hobbit » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:31 am

yeah G man thats the way to go. why you would lead offsuit when you have 3 trump left between you and take the risk of the hand ending right there with the offsuit lead i wouldnt know. different if you only had one trump. not a fantastic player myself but i was taught not to lead to an ace like that, it is pure guess work. :roll:
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Re: What would you do?

Post by GTO RACER » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:44 am

Read the postings thoroughly.
Last edited by GTO RACER on Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Hobbit
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Re: What would you do?

Post by The Hobbit » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:50 am

Oh maybe you can explain oh wise one, ty. did i word something wrong? :( hobbit

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Re: What would you do?

Post by Ratwhowillbeking » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:46 am

I'd suggest you rethink your lead on the 2nd trick

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Re: What would you do?

Post by GTO RACER » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:22 am

lol.... yeah I certainly should NOT have led the left... that's definitely a fundamental error.
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Baluka
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Re: What would you do?

Post by Baluka » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:37 am

What should have been led on the 2nd trick and why please. B.

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Re: What would you do?

Post by GTO RACER » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:15 pm

I will continue to lead the left in that situation.

My P ordered me the Ace.

You would assume since he ordered that he has more than 1 trump... including possible the right.

By leading the left it pulls the opps trump and shows my P where the left is..... and he knows that I still at least have the Ace.

If I were to lead my lowest... the 10 trump... then my p is still wondering where the left is....

Leading the Ace at that point is stupid because it doesn't tell my P anything about my hand and leads him to believe that the Ace was my ONLY trump.

Right or Wrong?.... go back and read the original postings.. that's not what this Forum Posting is about.. none of this is about right or wrong... I think most plays have logic behind them.

You just read mine.
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Re: What would you do?

Post by Ratwhowillbeking » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:38 pm

I'd lead the 10 of trump because it puts the lead where you want it. If you lead the ten of trump your partner will play the right and if your partner has either red ace or double heart you'll end up with all five.

By playing the left and keeping the lead, then you are posed with the dilemma Janet originally faced of what to lead next. If you lead trump back then you have to hope your partner has one of the red aces. If you play your 10 of diamonds then you have to hope you partner has the ace of diamonds or double heart.

The drawback to leading the 10S is if the eldest hand (player to your left) has two trump and is short in your partner's offsuit ace. That's unlikely given you can assume you know where 5 of the 7 trump are, and even if they did have both trump you're still safe if they aren't short-suited.

I would play it Janet's original way if I knew my partner well enough to know they wouldn't order me with J+1 unless they had an offsuit ace as well. There's always exceptions...

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Re: What would you do?

Post by GTO RACER » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:33 pm

Ratwhowillbeking wrote:I'd lead the 10 of trump because it puts the lead where you want it. If you lead the ten of trump your partner will play the right and if your partner has either red ace or double heart you'll end up with all five.

By playing the left and keeping the lead, then you are posed with the dilemma Janet originally faced of what to lead next. If you lead trump back then you have to hope your partner has one of the red aces. If you play your 10 of diamonds then you have to hope you partner has the ace of diamonds or double heart.

The drawback to leading the 10S is if the eldest hand (player to your left) has two trump and is short in your partner's offsuit ace. That's unlikely given you can assume you know where 5 of the 7 trump are, and even if they did have both trump you're still safe if they aren't short-suited.

I would play it Janet's original way if I knew my partner well enough to know they wouldn't order me with J+1 unless they had an offsuit ace as well. There's always exceptions...


True.. on the 10 S lead... I really never even considered that lead... I will admit I get caught up in some common play moves. One of those is showing my P the left on their order hand allowing of course... I never even considered leading the 10S in that situation... and with the partner I had... he will call on one trump if he can't defend 1st seat if I pass on the deal.. aces or no aces..

Either way it all would have had the same end result in that hand... but could make the difference in others for sure. Leading the 10 in lieu of double leading trump probably would have been a more solid play.. and it was the double lead of trump that was questioned... I was so worried about showing my partner my hand.. I never even considered that lead on 2nd round. That would have allowed the same control and lead for my P without using up so much of our trump.

Good point. When I first read you posting questioning that.. my first thought was.. HUH??? NOT lead the left? What do you mean??? NOT lead the left... but now that I think of it.. that probably would have been the smarter play.. accomplish the same feel out... and kept more trump in our hands doing it.
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Re: What would you do?

Post by callme7 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:58 pm

Knowing how some players order their P very thin, i would probably still lead the left bower, especially when i am holding the 2nd and 3rd ranked trump. The reason i would do this, just in case the right bower is dead and the opposition steals the trick with the king of trump with your 10 of trump lead. Tons of scenario's though. :) :)

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Re: What would you do?

Post by Todd Johnson » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:46 am

callme7 wrote:The reason i would do this, just in case the right bower is dead and the opposition steals the trick with the king of trump with your 10 of trump lead.
The King was played on the second trick. The only trump left are what she holds, and the right bauer which is in her partners hand. The only logical way to play that does not go against common sense is to lead the 10 of diamonds. You want to throw away your 10 of diamond before you lead trump. Leading trump would just make one of them useless, and then requires your partner to have a strong offsuit such as a red ace. You KNOW he has the right, but you don't KNOW what his offsuit is. Lead the 10 of di, your partner takes it with the right, and you have the rest of the trump. If your p has a low diamond, oh well no possible way for you to get two points. If your partner has a low heart and you lead, you fucked yourself. If you don't lead, you get two. Common sense, don't lead when you and your partner are the only ones left with trump, unless that is all you can do.

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Re: What would you do?

Post by Hoax » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:39 pm

Geeze - Hardwood euchre is not an exact science. Go with your gut instinct and if it happens to be wrong and your Partner doesn't like it then your P isn't worth your time to play a game. Pesonally, I think people's feelings are more important than a 2000 + rating. For those of you who boot people because their rating is too low, swear at people because they only play one game, call people baggers simply because they are not as agressive as one might like. You need a life beyond hardwood. It is just a game - ya win some and lose some.

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Re: What would you do?

Post by GTO RACER » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:25 pm

Hoax wrote:Geeze - Hardwood euchre is not an exact science. Go with your gut instinct and if it happens to be wrong and your Partner doesn't like it then your P isn't worth your time to play a game. Pesonally, I think people's feelings are more important than a 2000 + rating. For those of you who boot people because their rating is too low, swear at people because they only play one game, call people baggers simply because they are not as agressive as one might like. You need a life beyond hardwood. It is just a game - ya win some and lose some.
That's right I agree.. so if anyone wants to put their money where their mouth is PM me for the site I play for money on... they just rolled out betting Euchre.. and while not big stakes yet...it's per game and I get paid to do it. Other than saying hi... and a few games... you'll probably find me there more often.

;)
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Re: What would you do?

Post by callme7 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:45 pm

Yeah Toddy that's what i was talking about, the 2nd trick lead, not the 3rd lead. We were switching chat between those those two leads, Janet said she would still lead the left, i just reiterated it. As i said, at that stage of the hand by leading off suit (3rd lead) it's a bigger guess than leading trump because i am betting my P has any off ace, not just the ace of diamonds. I agree that leading trump when the opposition has none is fruitless but i believe in this case not, because no off suit aces had been played. I still say the gamble is better that your P has any ace other than hoping he has no diamonds (possible 6 still out) or the ace of diamonds. The fact was he didn't have any aces. I would play the hand the same if presented again, percentage tells me that. And as for you Hoax, this is a discussion, not an angry session that you are trying to make it against the top players, get your arse in there and play a decent game and stop running us down. Contribute something worth while to the Forum. :) :)

PS. I suppose it's all very well to say how we would play it now, we have had hours to think about what was played. Sometimes thought patterns don't gel together that quick in a game.

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