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Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:54 pm
by Hoax
Wheels

I very seldom play on hardwood anymore but it is not due to players cheating but the random dealing. Even though I don't play I check the forum regularly to see if there is any news about a fix to the problem. I have several nics above the 2000 ratings and I earned every point the hard way. I understand that even with a live body shuffling and dealing, loppy tables happen. I have played in many live tournaments and have indeed been a victim of just plain bad euchre luck. The frequency of the good competitive game on hardwood is almost non-existant so I have reluctantly abandoned hardwood for other sites. Granted Hardwood is one of the advanced sites as far as the bells and whistles but one of the worst as far as a good competitive game. Most of the players at the top did not get there by cheating but by playing a lot and when playing having the guts to call trump. The deals on hardwood are very predictable and many of the good players have learned to captialize on that fact. Passing on hardwood can seal your fate if you are playing against some of the top players. They will beat you in the end.

I can't speak for all of the top players on hardwood because I haven't had the opportunity to play with or against them. I can however speak for the integrity of Todd, Bre, Josh, Mike, Matty, Tony, Tamara, Andy and Janet and a few others. These players have EARNED the 2100 ratings by simply being good players and not by other means. Most of the players at the top are respectable players but unfortunately not the top players have respect for others. The players that I have mentioned have proven that they possess both qualities.

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:07 am
by The Zee
haha Hoax ty ty ty. However im sorry caus I dun remember you. Mind you having played with so many people I forget so easily.

Now lemme agree in part with what you say about the Random generator. I agree that it does cause a lot of problems with loppy tables, I sat on enuff of em over the 2-3 years I been here. However, I disagree that its the generators fault. Ive managed to get those crap cards in a live tournament in Vegas in November. After having a great start on the first night, we got killed every game the 2nd day. The problem is not in the generator itself but is basic mathematics.

If you calculate the permutations on a 9up card deck as used on this site ( thats 24 cards ) with 20 being dealt, 3 buried and 1 up card, theres not to many variations on what you'll get. However change it to a 7up deck with 32 cards, 1 up card and 11 cards buried, theres a lot more permutations i.e possible deals. Sure you'll still get crap cards and great cards, however theres a lot more distrubution so the streaks arent as bad. Now I can give you a great example of this. Me and 3 of my mates over here regularly played 1 day a week for several hours. We stuck with the same p for about 1 - 2 months and we played not to best of 3 but to about 200+ games. Inevitably the difference in between the 2 teams was not a huge amount as the cards swung back and forth. It ended up with maybe a 10-20 game difference and rarely got bigger than that.

There are several advantages to this. Firstly you get less one sided games. Theres a lot more euchering and a lot less actual loners. In fact, after playing this way for about 6 years in New Zealand, It took me months to adjust to how this site works. Another advantage is that you pretty much never block, in fact, I never even heard of blocking until about a year or so ago ( Im not going to go into blocking as its a do or don't technique that not everyone uses ). A lot of the basic principles Ive learned on here still apply like calling next etc.

Also you gotta realise on this site ( and I'd say any site that you go to ) that not only do you get on the bad side of a streak but a good side as well, we all seem to forget the good cards after getting on the downward spiral. Ive had days where you loose every game that you play no matter how good you and your p are, and days where I've sat on the same table for 10 or more games and won every single one.

Anyway, I hope to see you in here and if ya spot me please grab me for a game or 20 and just hope we aint on the bad streak.

Doomsday Device aka Matty Zee

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:59 pm
by Hoax
Now lemme agree in part with what you say about the Random generator. I agree that it does cause a lot of problems with loppy tables, I sat on enuff of em over the 2-3 years I been here. However, I disagree that its the generators fault. Ive managed to get those crap cards in a live tournament in Vegas in November. After having a great start on the first night, we got killed every game the 2nd day. The problem is not in the generator itself but is basic mathematics.

Thanks Zee.

I am not blaming the random generator entirely. I have played in many live tournaments where I have been dealt crap cards hand after hand. The problem exists mainly with the limitation of the 24 card deck. If I play on hardwood anymore I usually play British as the rules there seem to make a more even game. British is not a popular choice hardwood so finding any game much less a high rated table is next to impossible, so I am content to watch the regular preferred game. I have not had the opportunity to play or witness what you call a 7's up game but I would sure like to see that option happen if it will improve the game on hardwood.

My post was mainly a rebuttal to the comment regarding the cheating. I have had very little opportunity to play with the players mentioned in my previous post so I can understand that you don't remember me. I have, however, watched many games of their games. I immediately recognized the skill these players possessed as well as their consideration for other players. I do not believe that any of these players I mentioned need to cheat to stay on top nor do I believe they would ever want to cheat. I have noticed it is always the less experienced players that cry foul in the lobby.

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:15 pm
by Todd Johnson
The Zee wrote:The problem is not in the generator itself but is basic mathematics.
Exactly. Well, maybe not basic to everyone. :) Most people don't play like it is a 24 card deck.
The Zee wrote:Another advantage is that you pretty much never block, in fact, I never even heard of blocking until about a year or so ago ( Im not going to go into blocking as its a do or don't technique that not everyone uses ). A lot of the basic principles Ive learned on here still apply like calling next etc.
I know you do have to block SOMETIME, but I'm the biggest anti-blocking player on this site. And I have four nics in the top 1 percentile of this site. I'm just going to let the numbers explain the rest, cause they don't lie. (And I can't think of any more ways to explain it) :wink:

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:53 pm
by The Zee
Haha Todd, trust u to pick on me.

It is basic mathematics If you look at it like this: Would you prefer 24 Million or 32 Million in your bank?

And yes I agree with you about blocking, I still block a bit more than I should but hey im not in ur percentile.

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:30 am
by Todd Johnson
I've never played 7's and up, so I know I could be way off. I just watched what was a "closet" loner and started calling them, while getting lucky a few times. Assuming you still get 5 cards in 7's and up, don't you think with 8 more cards buried that there is a greater chance of a closet loner? Here is a little math for everyone...with 7's and higher there is now a total of 12 cards out of play, then when you go alone you have to add 5 more (your partners hand). Thats 17 cards out of play, 53% of the deck. Yes, we might get euchred more going alone, but statistics even out in the end. :) I'd still go alone with two suits, three with an off ace, two with two aces, next with two and a double off w/ ace, just the right and two aces in second seat, etc. I'll have to try it next time we are sitting around a table, although my friends refuse to play euchre with me anymore. Maybe if we stop playin for money... :D

To study the blocking technique, one has to not block at all, or you skew your data. If you block, how can you tell if it was really a loner or not when all 5 of the cards might not be played out. If it is a loner, you have the first lead. So you get to choose from one of three offsuits. Here is where people force themselves to throw the stopper, where they save their single ace, and they have a double off suit, like 10 King. They lead the 10 or king, and the loner maker has an offsuit of Ace queen in that suit. Or they can have the ace in the suit of your 10 king, and then have the king under the suit of your ace. By not leading your single ace first, you force yourself to choose between a double suit and an ace. Then they blame Hardwood for dealing so many "loners".

If I have 32 million in the bank, I'd take greater risks thus have a greater chance of making money. (and also losing money) :wink:

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:33 am
by Dust In The Wind
I agree it would enhance the game of risk and I feel that the rewards of 7ups will be the popularity of the game itself.

JUST DUST

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:40 pm
by The Zee
Todd, your banned from posting lol.

Next time your in New Zealand, pop over, Id be quite happy to Euchre you on all your loners and take your money. Bring lots!!!

As for you Dust. IT would really enhance this fantastic game. But I'll be too old to see the cards by the time it happens. 7sup has been discussed for years but yet have seen no
single reply from the powers that be.

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:07 pm
by Dust In The Wind
I know Zee but I don't quit very easily and figure if I help keep the hope alive.... maybe... just maybe.... Jonas will read this a see a reason to sell more copies of euchre.....

JUST DUST

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:50 pm
by callme7
I have said dozens of times in many different threads, the 7s up game WILL and DOES eliminate the tedious loner that the short deck dishes out. You can put what ever spin you like on it, try all different combinations, but believe me with this game the boring loner will not bail you out like it does now. Yes percentages do even out in the end over many millions of games, but you will find the potential loner won't repeat like it does now, approximately every 3.5 hands dealt. You will find at times you will go for games on end with no loner possibilties arising, except if you are Brentie. :D Just the extra eight cards in the deck stop this. Hurry up Jonas. :) :)

Eennie Meenie

The G

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:01 pm
by Primal Instincts
Imagine a restaurant that never changed its menu......after awhile only a handful of people would eat there...... 8)

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:21 am
by Todd Johnson
callme7 wrote:You will find at times you will go for games on end with no loner possibilties arising, except if you are Brentie. :D
Oh I'm sure you just don't notice all the closet loners and ones not called because they are afraid of the 7s up's game and its deadly reputation of being a "Loner Killer" :wink: Not to knock you, but it would be harder to keep track of what was buried and what would be an actual loner or not. Mathamatically, it could be easier to go alone with 53% of the deck dead. One just has to practice and they will notice which is a loner and which isn't. You call it instinct Garry. :) Just like we've done with the 9s and up version. Years ago nobody saw this many loners, because poeple didn't call it alone as much. We have played for years and watched what works and what doesn't, and learned from it. It will happen again...in my opinion.

-Todd

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:54 pm
by Dust In The Wind
I agree... once you get used to how the cards distribute you will call a loner on A,K,Q,10,7 of a suit and just because....

JUST DUST

PS - Real good chance the jacks are in the deck, if not you most likely got your 1 at the least

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:27 am
by enchantedlovers
As far as this cheating on ims and phone lines go what BS, people who dont understand the game have to blame something:)
anyway just wanted to input PollyandJoe as some of those high rated players not listed, and that it is a very time consuming and alot of hard work as the G said to get to the top.
PollyandJoe

Re: Unreal high ranking?

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:51 pm
by next2u_p
I thought I was being real sneaky crawling under the table and licking my opponents legs. I figured they'd be so startled they'd drop their cards. But after getting hair stuck in my teeth a few times and then there was the foot odor. The worst of all was some of the guys playing euchre in their shorts with the pot bellies hanging over the end of their chair. And Gary had the bad habit of kicking his leg out every time he got euchred. That cost me a lot in dental work. Tony always threw his pizza crusts on the floor and the dog bit me once when I tried to brush it off my chest. Susan stomped on my hand 3 times with her stilleto heels.It was so disgusting I decided to just play the best I could. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. I've had 1899 ratings go to 1450 in what seemed like seconds. No big deal. I don't get paid for high or low ratings. But Dust did offer me some fried porcupine rind and a side of cheesy fries if I'd lick his hairy calves. Those porcupine rinds were real tempting. 'Specially since he fries em in bear grease. Image