The Rating Game

Post Reply
User avatar
Bucky
Active Poster
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:10 am
Location: Australia

The Rating Game

Post by Bucky » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:07 am

I'm writing this post in regards to the rating system in the hopes of improving things for those of us not in the American EST timezone. Those of us in the New Zealand through to west coast Australia time zone, (plus a few extras that pop up) seem to be at a slight disadvantage when it comes to playing higher rated games. Unless we are willing to sit up at odd hours, the player pool is extremely limited for us. The result being, we wind up with a ton of provi nics coming out in the 1550-1700 bracket, and then no chance to play them in a fair environment. It becomes unfair due to the fact that for 1 loss we cop a hit of 20+ points, yet gain only 10 or less for a win. While i enjoy the challenge of getting 20 - 0 nics, the novelty wears thin. Those in the US timezones can continue on with a larger player pool, and increase their ratings through to 2000+. While i have a few of these, the oppurtunity to play them is very limited.

I understand that the bulk of your customers are in the US/Canada, but not all of them. There is a way to give those of us on the other side of the world a chance to enjoy some of the higher rated games at a reasonable hour of the day. Standardise the ratings system. +15 points/win -15 points/loss. or 20 points, or 10. It would not really matter what number you came up with as long as it were consistent.

There have been numerous nics floating around the lobby in our peak times, (Australian EST) that have fantastic for/against, and yet are rated 1300. How is this even remotely fair? The only reason it's come about is that the player has no choice but to play in open or very low rated games. Such an impressive for/against should be rewarded with an impressive rating.

As a quick little aside to pre-empt what i'm sure will get mentioned, I do give a rats about ratings :) I love the challenge of pushing them higher. I love the increased difficulty of games at higher rates. I dont play on Hardwood to socialise. I dont go there to make new friends. I go there to play euchre and win. I'd just like Aussies & Kiwis alike to have the same chance to do that as the Yanks & Canucks.

I'm looking forward to seeing any likeminded opinions, and maybe a reply from a mod/admin.
"Life is full of little surprises" ~ Pandora

User avatar
Sailing_Away
Guide
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Perth, ON

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Sailing_Away » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:20 am

The easiest answer is to suggest that you buy everyone in Australia and New Zealand a license to HW Euchre for Christmas this year. Player pool rises considerably and, thus, all's even. :-)

Seriously, though, much has been said here about the rating system in various games. It's one thing that you will never make everyone happy with, despite that you have raised good points. I play mostly in a hearts tourney and find that my rating never rises too fast because I play the same limited pool of players over and over. If I play pards games in smoots, though, I am sure my rating will skyrocket even if I don't play any better. That's just a known fluke in the current rating system in HH, and maybe there is something similar here.

Seriously, though, buy everyone down under a Euchre license. :-)
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

Tamara
Noob
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:15 am

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Tamara » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:35 pm

wonderful....u would hit 3000 in no time :lol:
btw u still owe me some points :D
10 000+ here i come ahahahaha
Ok seriously now,few years ago when 1800 was a highest rating on hw we used to have 1800 touranament in glendas.
That worked great since there was only 10 of us,3 from croatia,1 New Zealand,1 Australia...rest was Americans and Canadians,
we would set a time that works for everyone....was fun :)
He bought my world :)

User avatar
Bucky
Active Poster
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Bucky » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:26 pm

I deny any knowledge of a debt Tam. You're going to have to go through legal channels and extradite me :evil:
"Life is full of little surprises" ~ Pandora

callme7
Active Poster
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:18 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: The Rating Game

Post by callme7 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:42 pm

Yep, this has always been a huge disadvantage. You can't even pick a good provi game without booting heaps of players with 1300 ratings who refuse to reset. Now that might sound unkind, but as Bucky said, the point difference is too much for the serious player to win overall. I respect the players who are here just for the fun of it, but hey if that's the case, reset and get a nice bonus. Playing 2000+ games would be great, as Tam said, set a time and do it. With the Winter time now in the US this would be very good for everyone. 8pm and 9pm US time would be 1pm Aussie time and 3pm NZ time, can easily be done if players wanted it. A Sunday would be good for most i am guessing. All i say is, hurry up 7s up, as i believe once that is introduced, the player pool will increase with Aussies and Kiwis in the early hours over the next year or so. :) :)

Eennie Meenie

The G

Bitter Sea Lily
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:56 am

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Bitter Sea Lily » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:38 am

nice one G about the time im sleeping lol, there are a few of us Brits that like to play too you know, but seriously when i have the time to play im lucky if there are more then 28 players to choose from and half of those have a 1300 rating, not much to choose from when i have nics up to 1800 rating, infact theres no incentive to play at all, by the time the lobby starts to fill up im off doing other things, so unless i stay up half the night or let my family starve lol, provi games are about the best i can hope for, unless the game is updated.

User avatar
American Beauty
Grand Master
Posts: 3163
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 5:57 pm

Re: The Rating Game

Post by American Beauty » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:49 am

Consider this: The top 25 is dominated by the same few who partner each other continually. Does this mean that the good are getting better and have improved their game? Not necessarily. It means that the circle has grown tighter and that they have learned to play well together.

I would bet money on the fact that despite the poor ratings and all the frustrations that your game has increasingly improved by playing with random partners and learning how to adapt your game accordingly.


Which would you prefer, agility or strength?

Which would you prefer to be, the bull or the bullfighter?

Food for thought. :)
Image

The soul suffers when we make it live superficially and so seeks out things of beauty and the profound.

Grace finds beauty in everything.

User avatar
Bucky
Active Poster
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Bucky » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:23 pm

/me makes a shhhoooooooooooshhhh sound effect as the point skips over the top of American Beauty's head.

Consider this: The top 25 is dominated by the same few who partner each other continually..... because they are online at the same time. Does it mean the good are getting better? NO. It means the good have a chance to play against good players. They can enjoy a challenging game. The circle has not grown tighter, it has remained the same for a very long time now. Occasionally someone new creeps into it, by no other method then being online at the same time as a few of the top 25, and managing to get some game time.

I have an almost unlimited number of 1700 nics. They are 1700 because i rate them at or around the 1650 mark, and can still earn points on a win against 1400-1450 players. but thats where it stops. If i played a 1750 nic against opponents rated at 1450 or lower, i would stop earning points for a win, yet i would lose 23+ for a loss. my win/loss ratio is very good, but nobody is perfect every game. eventually, through the sheer nature of the rating system and my timezone, i will drop down once again.

The point of the topic (and i should know, i started it) is this. Those of us (who take a little pride in our game) who are not living in a US timezone, essentially have an artificial ceiling placed on us. If we can not make it online during "your" times, then we are stuck in provi world. In a 2000 game, you have to call everything you think you can earn a point from. In a provi game, especially in our timezone, a lot of the weaker players really have no idea of the strength of their hand. Skill goes out the window, it drags tactic with it, and it turns into a game of blind luck. That is not euchre.

If the tight little circle at the top wish to increase their ratings even further, and i know for a fact they do, then they need fresh blood to join them. Until something is changed, it will not happen.

I'll take the bull and serve him up as Food for thought :)
Last edited by Bucky on Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is full of little surprises" ~ Pandora

Tamara
Noob
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:15 am

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Tamara » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:12 pm

The reason the post was brought up is because there is not enough higher games/players but OK....
We all had to play with random players at one point and adjust our game,depending who we play with/against.
And yes we learned how to play well together just because there is not enough higher rated players around,thats why this post was brought up to begin with.
Maybe we should all just go back to provi and improve our game since we all play together all the time and learn how to adapt our game with random players AGAIN.
Oh wait....i think we been there already but wth lets do it one more time just for a fun of it :roll:
Food for thought :lol:
He bought my world :)

callme7
Active Poster
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:18 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: The Rating Game

Post by callme7 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:44 pm

Ok, hands up everyone who wants to join my 1300 club, no Brits or higher than 1349 allowed. In all seriousness, the Top 25 players on this site will always be the top 25 players regardless who their partner is. They may well play alot together but they change partners a huge amount within the top players. ie. if you are any damn good at the game you will be up there most of the time. Ok, shall i get back to the point of this post or keep wandering, actually i like to wander around. TAXI. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Eennie Meenie

The G

XAmaltheaX
Active Poster
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:50 pm

Re: The Rating Game

Post by XAmaltheaX » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:40 pm

1300 club? Well now we're talking... G count me in :D

If you ask Tam, she'd even charge money to those who want to play with her in the big games. She'd even charge you for watching.

If you ask Luke ... well he just wants to be the highest one, if not this way then by changing the whole rating system (Skywalker alright :D)

If you ask Susan she will blabber about the joy of playing with low rating random people but will also mention she has close friends way high up there...

If you ask me ... as long as its friends playing its great

If you ask Andy.... well don't ask Andy, he's "just married" and would probably like to keep it that way :D

This place has changed but I'm glad you people didn't :D Miss you all
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection

User avatar
American Beauty
Grand Master
Posts: 3163
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 5:57 pm

Re: The Rating Game

Post by American Beauty » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:14 pm

Actually, we are all faced with the same thing. The majority of my free time (Pacific Time AM) there are no 20, 19, 18, 17, and it's pretty hard-pressed to find even a 16oo game. So, I decided that improving my game was what I wanted to focus on. I make lots of names and join games anonymously. I play with and against all kinds of people of all ratings. If I happen to find higher games, it's usually in the evenings and is exclusively the same people. I enjoy higher-rated games, but like you the available options are a challenge. My earlier comments were not meant as a slam on individuals, its was only an observation of a polarization. Simply an observation. Not personal. I am sorry if some took it that way.
When I considered your request for the programmers to change the rating system and to make exceptions for certain peoples and countries, I realized that to do so would be a slippery slope. Where would they stop, and with whom?

And you'd also be surprised at how many excellent 1300 rated players there are. They usually are people who play in the tourney rooms like Sailing Away does. So now based on the reasoning you put forth, should people who play in tourney rooms ask for a different rating system? Their rating gets slammed more than any.

I agree it can be frustrating playing with people who are new to the game, but it's not below me. How else are we gonna find new talent? ;)

Anyway, that's how I dealt with the problem. Changed my focus.

Happy Thanksgiving! :)
Image

The soul suffers when we make it live superficially and so seeks out things of beauty and the profound.

Grace finds beauty in everything.

User avatar
Bucky
Active Poster
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Bucky » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:42 am

:shock: It looks like her :shock:
:shock: It sounds like her :shock:
:( But she deserted us hardwoodians :(

Are you about to make a comeback tour Amalthea? Whatever the case, great to see your name floating around again. It's been too long :D
"Life is full of little surprises" ~ Pandora

Nth Entity
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:47 pm

Re: The Rating Game

Post by Nth Entity » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:18 pm

I do like reading peoples comments and their view towards ratings which are 2 extremes. Ratings mean a lot but I just have no patience for them.

Post Reply