What was going on in this game?

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Post by duffer36 » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:30 am

Cosider the possibility that she may be relatively new as a player. Oftentimes I have sen players forget that they do not get the upcard when they call trump. Heck, I have even done it myself on very rare occasions! As Hero said, she also may have been trying a newer strategy as well. Perhaps someone told her that in order to win more, she needed to call more. However if this is true, she appears to have taken it to the extreme.

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Post by the count24 » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:05 am

seems to me this player is average but did make bids i would have made myself.....
hand 1 - 3 trump and A is good
hand 2 - ordering up opposing team 9 with A10, not smart....
hand 3 - both bowers on pard upcard is good
hand 4 - order up bower as a block is actually a smart play with the hand she was holding.
hand 5 - loner..........
hand 6 - order up A with only right is not good
hand 7 - right ace ordering up pard is good
hand 8 - loner..........
hand 9 - picking up 9 on left 10 in good, not staying double suited is dumb
hand 10 - order up other teams bower on AK10 is not smart
hand 11 - ordering up pard 10 on right ace is a smart play

This player made an effort and by no means looked like any malicious intent was envolved to throw game. To throw game they would always pass, thats a sure way to lose in a hurry. This player has a lot of good ideas and with a little less aggression (as in ordering other teams upcard) can be learned in time.

These are the facts as I see them. And I believe any top flight player would back me.
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hehehe

Post by GTO RACER » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:01 am

ok u know i have to put my 2 sense in. lol. First of all i can't believe that we are all adults going over cards where nothing is at stake to try to determine someone's intentions. SECONDLY, i have to state that I first came to hardwood in the wonderful realm of euchre, where everyone is sweet, fills the lobby with sweet binds, goosey keeps everyone in check, and u rarely have accusations of cheating or throwing a game. We only usually come across this if someone is doing it themselves or if we play a sore loser. Rarely does this taint our euchre air in Smoots. Now, picture this scenario. Getting tired of Euchre (OMG I can't believe that I said that!!!) I download Spades, expecting the same loving competitive environment I enjoy in Euchre. NNNOOOOOTTTTT. The majority of EVERYONE bashes their partner, never finishes a game, accuses people of cheating, talks trash, and they bash the guides. So my comment first of all is that, seeing the environment that you came from I can understand where such an assumption could come from. First off you are new. Second off, until you are GOOD at the game, you shouldn't make any assumptions or in this case accusations. If you want to see how lite you can call, next time go in and watch when the big guys are playing. if you see a 1700+ or above game, please go in and watch, you will be amazed how lite u can call. HERO IS the best example of this. He just sees the cards somehow. Does it always work for him? no. Does it work most of the time? YES. look at his win loss ratio. When i first started playing against him, he lost all the time and I thought he sucked. It was a pleasure taking his points. But when he's ordering lite and that stuff is going through (because he knows how to play those lite hands) prepare yourself to be rolled into the rating gutter. I took a quick look at the hands. There were only 2 that i wouldn't have called, and on that one hand I would have definitely short suited myself first. Heck, i've called next on just nines and have been overjoyed to find my p was loaded w/trump. It's how u read the cards. After you play long enough, you'll start being able to take a very good educated guess as to what everyone has. Sometimes you're wrong, but when you learn this by paying attention to all the cards that have been played, and noting what has been played, and by being able to recognize patterns (yes, patterns, come on folks, it's a random computer program there has to be some logic to it.) you will also know when u can call lite and get away with it. And that's all I have to say about that.
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THANKS GUYS

Post by ScoutsHonor » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:15 pm

Thanks, guys and gals. Appreciated the various insights very much. Is one of the things I enjoy most about the forum -- when you ask for opinions, you get them!

Thanks again.

ITOP MUSH
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Post by duffer36 » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:18 pm

GTO, the point Mushy was trying to make was that this person called EVERY HAND regardless of the cards they held. That is a far cry from "calling light". There were a couple absolutely ludicrous calls made in the game she described. Most were good ideas, but not all. Remember, even the BEST Euchre players do not call EVERY hand.

Secondly, I believe Mushy comes more from the Hearts arena than the Spades arena. This doesn't make her more apt to complain about possible cheating or whining because she lost. Read some of her other posts in the other forums and you will get a much clearer picture of the type of player she is. She was merely trying to determine what was going on in this game. Was she missing something? Were her partner's tactics good and she was not aware of them? I think this is actually what Mushy was trying to find out.

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duffer, duffer, duffer

Post by GTO RACER » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:13 pm

I don't know what your deal is duffer, but everytime u respond to one of my posts, u rip it apart. EVERY time. First i would like to know what makes u such an expert. i never see u in euchre. and i'm there all the time. My vote and my opinion goes along with the people who ARE in euchre AND on the top 25 list all the time. Secondly i have read her posts in other forums. So please tell me what makes u such an expert as to say that the calls are ludicrous. 2 weren't smart, but what the heck? we're not perfect. First of all she asked for an opinion, i didn't. and being that i have had several nics on the top 25 i feel secure in the opinion that i gave. I didn't ask for Your opinion on what I said, cuz u always rip me apart. i was responding with an opinon that MUSH ASKED FOR. please keep the topic to that.

GTO, the point Mushy was trying to make was that this person called EVERY HAND regardless of the cards they held.

u go in and watch the bigs games and see how little the best players pass.


She was merely trying to determine what was going on in this game. Was she missing something? Were her partner's tactics good and she was not aware of them? I think this is actually what Mushy was trying to find out.

Last time i check i was pretty capable of comprehension skills.

now wait i know i know ur gonna come back and say that i didn't understand what u were trying to say that's what u did last time too.
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Post by duffer36 » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:17 am

Please inform me where I RIPPED APART your post. I'm really interested in seeing where. See, there's a new idea sweeping the nation. It's called voicing an opinion. Everyone has one and is entitled to voice it. Maybe mine is different from yours. Does this make either right or wrong? Not necessarily so. In this instance probably even less so.

Please also show me where I claimed to be an expert. By the same token, what makes YOU an expert? Simply because you never see me doesn't mean I am never there. Just so happens work conflicts with playing at a decent time. Ask the old timers, they know me, and they know my ability as well. They also know that I don't waste my time playing games trying to make the "Top 25". I could not care less about it. Does it mean you are one of the 25 best? Absolutely not. All it means is that by playing restrictive and select games, you have acheived a certain number of ratings points. Big deal. See, I don't believe in restricting who I play with or against. Low or high makes no difference to me.

You said 2 calls were not smart. I said a couple calls were ludicrous. That sounds like the same thing to me. Last I looked, a couple was two. I then said most of the others were good. Sounds like we were pretty much in agreement then doesn't it?

As I said earlier, NO ONE CALLS EVERY HAND. You seem to agree when you say "see how little the best players pass".

So where do we disagree? Looks like nowhere that I can see. Maybe next time actually take the time to use those comprehension skills properly.

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Post by the count24 » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:23 am

Duffer - it does seem your comments were contradicting GTOs'.

GTO wrote that "essay" to talk about attitude and cheating. Then it got going in another direction (using paragraphs to separate ideas would be nice) towards euchre strategy.

GTOs' opinions are respected by many, and unless I have a solid arguement I wouldn't go against them. She DOES play in all the highest rank games she can, to compete with the top players. This top 25 that you don't care about Duffer, is what many of us strive for.

I have played on this site for almost half a year, and when I play, I play competitive. Those who talk about rankings being not important do so because they fail to achieve that status they want. The fact is that we live in a society where winning does matter and so does ranking. Without it there would be no olympics, super bowl, stanley cup, world series, etc.....
always play your best, and keep counting.....

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OH SHEESH

Post by ScoutsHonor » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:22 am

Well, pfffffffffffft.

I asked about this game because of the hundreds of games I've played, it just was so odd -- and also because I've only played euchre for a couple of months, and though I'm a pretty good player, I want to get better -- and I learn from other people's points of view.

I guess you had to be IN this game to really feel what was going on -- A pard who took every bid but my 2 loners -- even when it gave jacks and aces to the other side -- and opponents who sat and laughed every time my opponent bid something goofy.

I am not someone who accuses people of cheating -- I don't think you will ever see me say that during a game or after it, even if I privately feel something odd was going on. Usually, I just chalk it up as 'another learning experience" and vow not to play that team again -- but this game was just odd. I know I'm not explaining it well. I guess you just had to be there!

I learn something from EVERYONE's point of view. I sure didn't mean to get people upset, and I appreciate all that's been said.

Melinda
aka 1TOP MUSH

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Post by GTO RACER » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:33 pm

Just as predicted, not gonna waste my time replying cuz u'll just contradict it again. No, ludacris and smart aren't the same, hehehe I looked it up. And darn they left ludacris out of the Thesaurus as a synonym for not smart. darn.
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Post by mickodie » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:54 pm

asked about this game because of the hundreds of games I've played, it just was so odd -- and also because I've only played euchre for a couple of month
ScoutsHonor? 10 to 12 months wasn't a couple last time I looked. No need to pick on GTO just because she had an opinion. Everyone has one.
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Post by Ukrgawd » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:56 am

GTO and The Count are very good players and I would respect boths opinion. BUT so is Duffer as I have played against and as a P on many occasion. I Know I have 2 years on this site alone and Duffer was here when I started{Gawd now I do feel old :shock:}
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grrrrrrr

Post by ScoutsHonor » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:29 am

Lordy, lordy, Mick -- not picking on GTO at ALL -- can't figure out why you would even say that! I respect her opinions and appreciated the insights, and never said a dang thing otherwise!

And, to clarify, I've only returned to euchre in past 2 months. I did play some about a year ago, but quit and have just recently returned.

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Post by Gray Goose » Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:59 am

Please stop. We've all learned a lot from this post, I know I have. But I would like to see it die a natural death, instead of watching friends I know, love, and respect beat it to death with vitriolic rhetoric.

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