I take my leave

Hero
Active Poster
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:04 am

I take my leave

Post by Hero » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:04 pm

Well it's been fun, but alas, I am formally retiring from HW euchre. I may stop by once in a while to chat, but my days of playing euchre in HW are over. The reason for this is simple enough really; it's the cards. Not even the pleasure of playing with my fav p's overcomes the utter frustration of having your opponents order up every upcard with top 3 cards in their hand -- sure, it can happen once or twice in a week... but not every game for a week. I will seek my euchre fix from a truly random program. Perhaps I am just being paranoid, but others feel the same way. . . and maybe one streak of these sorts is possible but not countless amounts of them. I even have a replay of a game I lost without even getting a chance to pass or accept the upcard on one of these streaks. But enough of my ranting and on to the fun stuff.

First off, I would like to thank the many p's that made my days in Euchre as pleasurable as the cards allowed them to be... let me start form the beginning : Doc - a.k.a. Bentrovato (you have taught me much and brought a new level of challenge to the site), Terri -( my first fav p... I wouldn't have a day without playing with you in the beginning), Bigtyma and Venture a.k.a the bot players - No one will touch our 2 records - best win/loss and most times accused of cheating), Obviously the late Highway and V - two of the best (not only players, but people) , Now to the more recent: Count, Amanda, GTO, Juli -- you 4 made the games more and more fun, and I will probably only continue to play a game or two with you guys. I am obviously forgetting many --too many to name... Jude, Amel, Goosey (you thought I would forget you -- and while I am on it..all the guides who kept order)... and last, but definitely not least -- Cus ---who's euchre ability is surpassed by none who is currently on the site.

Before I make my final departure...I would like for anyone to try to reach 1392 - 952 --- not an easy task, unless you seem to get my opponents cards all the time lol ... Also, hitting 200-100 and 600-350 were some other notable achievements. I might still try to hit my 1500-999, but I highly doubt I will play that many more games.

As for me, I am off like a prom dress and will no doubt see ya around the forum or lobby. Take it easy, and remember one is allowed 2 euchres a game. Aces first, can't be worst; aces last, may actually pass. And for the love of God call with right and a small one(under the right circumstances of course). Well, Good day my firends and happy playing.

and don;t forget that if you want to chat jsut post here... for chat or tips, or a social game... I will be checking up for sure.

Till the next. 8)
Life is too short to waste . . . let's play some Euchre.

Gray Goose
Grand Master
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:49 pm
Location: Beautiful, Sunny/Rainy Oregon
Contact:

Post by Gray Goose » Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:51 am

Don't you dare do this!

{This space reserved for Saturday when I have some time off and can think of a rebuttal that will make you change your mind.}

User avatar
Jonas
Illuminated One
Illuminated One
Posts: 5033
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 3:46 pm
Contact:

Post by Jonas » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:28 pm

Hero, I'm sorry that it appears that way.

We really have tested forwards and backwards the shuffling of the cards, spending countless hrs trying to find anything that would cause something like that to happen, and we just haven't been able to find that effect or an unbalanced shuffle.

We've added some stuff ontop of the basic shuffleing that would make it even more unlikely that the deck isn't shuffled. but some folks still feel that the cards aren't working out in thier favor.

We also added the cut deck feature which even if the deck was unballanced, you would at that point be makeing a human inpact that would determine how the deck would untimately be dealt.

I'm kinda at a loss of ideas on how to make things feel better. :/

User avatar
mickodie
Big Poster
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:27 pm

Post by mickodie » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:04 pm

Don't give up Hero. :? Make a new name and ride it out. I heard about an old trick that I have used from time to time. Play several games with bots. It gets your confidence built back up. Better yet, play a few games against me. I am so rusty I squeak. :shock:
Have Fun, Play Fair, and Keep the Card Gods Happy!

Gray Goose
Grand Master
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:49 pm
Location: Beautiful, Sunny/Rainy Oregon
Contact:

Post by Gray Goose » Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:21 pm

http://www.silvercrk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?

Hero, please go to that Spades post and read JustIce's comments. It might not help, but it can't hurt to read it.

Hero
Active Poster
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:04 am

Post by Hero » Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:46 am

Goosey...I can't get anywhere with your link, and Jonas, it does not only appears that way . . . it is how it is. I have given it many opportunities saying to myself that it has to be random, but only on Hw (not on any other site - including playing with real cards around a table - do I get streaks like on HW) And I do believe that playing almost 2500 games takes away the possibility of a hasty decision.
Life is too short to waste . . . let's play some Euchre.

Gray Goose
Grand Master
Posts: 3036
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 9:49 pm
Location: Beautiful, Sunny/Rainy Oregon
Contact:

Post by Gray Goose » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:29 am

Well, that link didn't take me anywhere either - I guess it was just to keep you busy while I think.

At any rate, I found the post it was supposed to link you to and I am copy/pasting what Just Ice had to say. All copy/paste is in blue:

Lastly, I happen to know that Jonas is concerned about the way the deal is perceived. My guess is he is receiving far less complaints than he used to. If what is being discussed on the message board is some indication, I have seen far less discussion on this topic than in past years. Honestly, I don't think the deals perfectly mimic true, live, random deals, but I don't see how a computer can. Unless you design in deals and control what cards are dealt where, the deals will always be left to an algorithm.

That's been my biggest complaint since I first started playing on-line Spades, that they don't "feel" live. The deals have a different feel at some card sites. Some feel better than others. The bottom line is, I don't like it when the cards control the outcome. It's going to happen. I just like to see it minimized.

I haven't played as much Spades lately and I think this has something to do with it. It's taken away some of my competitiveness. I know there will be many times I will win or lose just because the cards are dealt unevenly. I still say it happens more on-line than live. It's not just Hardwood, it's virtually every site I have tried. I don't enjoy on-line Spades as much as live Spades, and I think it has everything to do with the deals.

Thoughts on Shuffling

A while back, Jonas mentioned he was thinking of a way to show all the card backs to the dealer and let him "shuffle" them by dragging cards around. After the deck goes through some shuffling, the dealer can "scatter" cards around. Then, have it shuffle them again. Maybe it's time to look at that, or some way to let the dealer have more say in how the cards are shuffled.

The only thing I see that's very different between live and on-line shuffles is that in live games you gather the cards up by suits, because they are played by "tricks", BEFORE you move on to the next shuffle. In on-line shuffles you base how cards are shuffled based on the previous alignment of the cards before they are even dealt. So, live shuffles follow the cards through the entire hand to "seed" for the next shuffle. On-line shuffles do not. They "seed" from the position the cards were in from the previous shuffle. This would stand to reason that on-line decks are shuffled BETTER, but not necessarily what you're used to seeing live.

Also, with a live shuffle the cards only move marginally. It is impossible or unlikely for the bottom card to move too far up the pile with one, or even a series of shuffles. With an on-line shuffle, it is possible for the bottom card to be placed at the top of the deck after the very first shuffle. Again, a BETTER method for mixing, but not necessarily what you're used to seeing live.

I think these are just some of the factors that make the shuffles "feel" different on-line.


Sam, when I think of you leaving HW Euchre, it saddens me. I can only hope you find a place where you feel the deal is more . . . well, whatever is lacking here.

But I guarantee that you won't find people who care more about you than here. HW Euchre isn't just a game, it's a community - full of people who truly care for each other and get together for a game.

Mick had a great suggestion - hang up the Hero and come back with a new nic. Wait out this 'cold spell' or whatever is going on right now, but don't give up on HW. Changes are made from within, not from leaving.

User avatar
ScoutsHonor
Grand Master
Posts: 1398
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: west virginia
Contact:

yah

Post by ScoutsHonor » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:47 am

Yeah, what Goosey said.

I'm sure you have read this old truism:

Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change those things I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference
.
(Reinhold Niebuhr 1892-1971)

Whether you've played 25 games here or 2500, the bottom line remains: the deals are the same for all of us -- we learn to live with what we cannot change, and this is one of 'em.

But even more important is what Goosey said: HW is more than just a gamesite, it's a community of people -- real people, with real hearts, and real people who care about us.

I could maybe (maybe!) leave the games, but to leave the people? Ahhhhh, that I could not do.

I hope, when you think it over, you will decide that people mean more than the game itself.

You might find another gamesite -- but will you ever find another "us"? Face it, we are both unique and nearly irreplaceable!
Melinda
AKA 1TOP MUSH
mshowes1@aol.com

Image
You'll notice that a turtle only makes progress when it sticks out its neck.

User avatar
LadyMo
Active Poster
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:56 am
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post by LadyMo » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:02 am

Ditto what Scouts, and Gray said. WE are a one in a million site here. I stay for the people more than the cards. I mean after all it is just a game!! I have had my high times with the cards and when they slump I jump into my unknown names and play a few *hiding* games. Then come back as me and play. Come for the cards stay for the people should be the motto for Hardwood Euchre!!!!

User avatar
ScoutsHonor
Grand Master
Posts: 1398
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: west virginia
Contact:

Ohhh

Post by ScoutsHonor » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:03 am

Ohhh I like that motto, Mo!
Melinda
AKA 1TOP MUSH
mshowes1@aol.com

Image
You'll notice that a turtle only makes progress when it sticks out its neck.

User avatar
LadyMo
Active Poster
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:56 am
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post by LadyMo » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:07 am

I knew ya would lol :lol:

User avatar
St Stephen
Active Poster
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:06 pm
Location: Between, GA (yes, its really between)
Contact:

Post by St Stephen » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:02 am

I'll drink to that. Well said Mo.
Image
St Stephen with a rose, in & out of the garden he goes.

thatcher
Active Poster
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:56 pm

Post by thatcher » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:41 pm

OK UR RIGHT THE DEAL IS UNFAIR BUT Heres a weeeee hint for you in euchre the table colours matter example blues win or red i mean the power shifts between th blue or red some night blue dominate some nights red so just look before u play at the scores to see which is doing better red is the 1 who makes the game blue is the other

thatcher
Active Poster
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:56 pm

Post by thatcher » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:45 pm

very well said mo u are probably the best advert for hw euchre ever

ur the most helpful person here without the light blue colour,ur accertive ,u are great and i thnk this site would be a harder place without u

u have helped me along and guided me in many ways ur great ty

User avatar
LadyMo
Active Poster
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:56 am
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post by LadyMo » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:50 pm

Thank you for the kind words i do appreciate it. It is nice to know when we have made a difference no matter how small :lol:

Post Reply