Inflated Ratings

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EUCHREtimesTWO
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Inflated Ratings

Post by EUCHREtimesTWO » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:46 pm

Just as what has happened to the Japanese yen, is now happening to hardwood euchre. It seems since Hardwood has grown in size so has the size of its rating. When I started playing at Hardwood in March of 2001 a 1700 rating would put you at #1. But since those days many high skilled players have joined the site. Also the addition of -100 has helped keep ratings higher. The high rated players feed off of one another, then sit the account aside and do the same thing again. Because of this everyone has 15 1800+ accounts which aren't even used most of the time. Now that there is an abundance of high rated players a rating seems to mean less. I think that Hardwood should introduce a second portion to the rating system. Overall winning percentage should be averaged into the equation also, making a rating more meaningful over a long period of time, rather than just a week or so. I've always disagreed with the short term ratings which don't really measure a players skill accurately. Hopefully there is a lot of positive feedback for this new system, and hardwood can answer my call for help. I know i would appreciate it, and many others would too. any feedback, positive or negative will be greatly appreciated. MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD
Dave Thomas

Sterlingchick123
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Post by Sterlingchick123 » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:58 am

I dont disagree but want to make a point, based on experience mainly in Hearts. Win/Loss percentages don't mean much when you consistently play less skilled players. I like that the rating system takes this into account. I would not want ratings to be based on win/loss ratios. It's a disincentive to challenge yourself. We, as players, have a choice, we can challenge ourselves and play better players or equal players. Or we can steer clear of a challenge and go for the easier win and play with lower rated players. Do we always look for a good partner, or do we take a chance and play with people we have never played with. After a few years of being here, as you say you have been, the rating may be high or low, but the character of the person comes thru anyway. It's high one day, good for you. How did you get there? The path is more important than the destination. MO.

p.s. I know the key to getting a high rating, and I have employed it and I have many high rated nics in hearts. Big deal. I'm a good player and I play with good pards, of course my rating will be high. My opinion is that most people could care less about their rating and play with anyone and have very average ratings. Ignore the rating, concentrate on the game, getting better on your own terms, and you will find satisfaction with or without the rating.

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American Beauty
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Post by American Beauty » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:39 pm

We do have higher-rated and more skilled players in Euchre now, then ever before. Hallelujah!

The real amazing thing is that some of them play with me! HAHAHAH

I have to say though, I really hate the names in Euchre that list all the "best" players in their profile. I personally find that kind of boasting distasteful.

But that's just me.

In my opinion, Win/Loss Ratio tells more than rating. Playing close to ones rating is only smart. It's a long mountan to climb and an easy slope to slide down on... much like staying in shape -- an uphill climb and a downhill slide. But many skilled players have lower-rated nics and therefore play mediocre players like me, thankfully... so I can learn and become better at the game. Better at calling, cuz calling is everything.

On changing the programming, I don't mean to be a wet sock, but I can't foresee the programmers changing how the rating system is calculated. It's a complex system that takes into account the skill level of the players competing against each other. It's similar to what is used in Chess. There are numerous posts on this subject and hundreds of pages written, links explaining, etc.

gtg. Renaissance Fair today. Happy posting. :)

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EUCHREtimesTWO
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Post by EUCHREtimesTWO » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:12 pm

SterlingChick
you bring a great point, i meant to put it in this way but as i read through it i noticed i didn't. i would like to see the Rankings be a combination of win/loss along with "Strength of Schedule" aka playing high rated players.

As far as the programmers changing their system. If u never try, how will u find out if they are willing to change?

Thank you for replying and keep the feedback

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sugarlipped
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Post by sugarlipped » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:57 pm

I'm fine with the current situation. I only wish there were more 1700 and 1800 players to play against. I often put my higher nics away because there are not many to play with at the higher level.

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Where to find the rules.

Post by lachiump » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:06 pm

Where do you look to find out how they do the ratings? I have some other questions, but can't seem to find the answer to them on the web site under rules. They mostly seem like they are a not to do list.

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MidNightWolf
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Post by MidNightWolf » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:16 pm

Hardwood Rating FAQ
Q: How do the ratings work?
The basic idea is that the better place you get, the better it will be for your rating. And it's also important how you and the other players are rated before the game starts. You will earn more for besting a High rated player and conversely lose more to a lower rated player if you finish below them.

If all players are of equal rating you will more or less go up in rating if you are in 1st or 2nd and your rating will go down if you are in 3rd or 4th. The points you receive in the game are not used in calculating your rating just what place you earned in the game. (1st, 2nd. etc.)

Since most everyone players team (partner) games you are rated as a team loss or win. If you are on the losing team you will be compared to the members of the other team as losing to each the reverse is true if your team wins. In that case you would be rated as if you won against the individuals of the other team.


Q: What are the requirements to play a rated game? Why don't I get a rating!?
You 1st need to be in a rated room. Next, you have to have at least 3 human players from the start of the game.

Also, you have to play a game that's not using the shortest setting. For example you can play a 25 point standard game nor a 100 point spot heart game. They are just too short to show how good of a player you are and almost entirely luck.

If you aren't there from the very beginning of the game you won't be rated.


Q: Why did I just go down in rating? It looks like I should of went up!
If you have a higher rating than another player you are expected to win against that lower rated player. This may cause you to either not go up in rating or possibly down in rating.

So as a general rule, you better get 1st place or on the winning team if you have a really high ranking when playing a game against very low ranked players.

Q: Why did I just lose 150 points on my rating!
When you start out as a new player, you are in a provisional state. This is a very unstable time, it will fluctuate a lot until you get out of provisional status. It's just a placement phase, a way to quickly place you belong in the rating system, so don't worry if you drop 115 points, you might go up 150 next game.

Q: What happens when someone quits or disappears in a rated game?
I1. To be considered a missing player the player has to have been the original player in that seat and made at least one move, cut deck, bid, or played a card.
2. Other players will always be rated against a missing player.
3. A Quitting player will always be rated if their seat lost.
4. A missing player in a winning seat (1st or 2nd in a 4 player individual game, 1st in 3 way) will be rated IF they played more then 3/4this of the game (based on number of hands dealt), and they were disconnected or kicked. A player that chooses to QUIT the game will NEVER receive a win, only a loss.

The rest of the players will play the replacement player and will receive credit as if you we're still playing.

Don't quit a game, it's really upsetting to the remaining players.

Q: How does the rating get calculated?

How Hardwood Hearts calculates ratings.

The ratings are based on the United States Chess Federation's rating system. With some modification. When a game is completed it compares you to each of the three opponents in that game separately. So say you get 2nd place it calculates your rating 3 times, once versus the 1st place person as a loss, once versus 3rd place as a win, and 4th place as a win. So basically you lost to one person and won against 2. The difference of the three new ratings and your original rating is then averaged together and then added to your original rating.

So say your original rating was 1500 and your three new ratings are 1475, 1525, and 1550. The differences would be -25, +25, and +50, summed together is +50 divided by 3 for an average of 17 and that is added to your original rating for a total of 1517.

Everyone starts out with a provisional rating of 1500. You get an established rating after completing 20 games. We use 2 different calculations based on who is provisional and who is established.

When a player is established and the opponent is
also established:
r1new = r1 + 32*(w-(1/(1+10^((r2-r1)/400))))
If player is established and the opponent is provisional
Points=16+(16*(n2/20))
r1new = r1 + Points * (w-(1.0/(1.0+pow(10.0, (r2-r1)/400.0))))
where:
r1new = player's rating after the match
r1 = player's rating prior to the match
r2 = opponent's rating prior to the match
o = player's outcome (-1 for loss, 0 for draw, 1 for win)
w = player's outcome (0 for loss, 0.5 for draw, 1 for win)
n1 = number of games played by player prior to the match
n2 = number of games played by opponent prior to the match

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