The High-Rater Huddle

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American Beauty
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The High-Rater Huddle

Post by American Beauty » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:40 am

This is happening at a fast rate in Euchre. The High-Rater Huddle, what is it? It's a cunning and subtle form of rate-manipulation.

An 1850 sets game. 1750 partner sits. 1850 leaves. Partner holds seat, oftentimes by putting in a bot. 1850 comes back with 1750 nic.

You will never see the 1400 or 1500 player do this, therefore, it is putting the higher-rated players at an advantage... less point loss per game then those who do not employ this practice, ie. the lower-rated players.

I propose that if Host leaves game before it starts, game will be over. Once game is in progress, all will be as it has been. But the way it is now, the High-raters are taking advantage of a flaw in the system, and by huddling together, there is less liability, which ensures their postions by the slower rate of change.


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Moordock
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:/

Post by Moordock » Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:31 am

Players in all games have been doing this for many years. I'm not sure it's rate manipulation. After all they have the nics to do it with. It certainly has an elite feel to it though.


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Post by BID2WIN » Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:52 am

cmon moordock your better than that. what else could it be besides manipulation. someone who i will leave annyonomous hit it right on the head. "these players are USING those nics not PLAYING with them", and if USING isnt MANIPULATION then let it go on. no pride no glory is all i got to say.

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Post by American Beauty » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:35 am

BID2WIN, I don't have to be anonymous,
gotJack wrote:"these players are USING those nics not PLAYING with them"
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Post by GTO*Racer » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:46 am

So please tell me how you think that this can be stopped.
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Post by American Beauty » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:57 am

Another argument that I have heard by one who practices this, is that they are only leveling the playing field.

Yes, for that one game, but not for the site.

When the point exchange for all that play in a game is minimal because it has been cushioned, you are indeed, throwing the site off balance.

A 1650 player sets game only to get hit hard by a 20-point loss, when he loses to the 1550 player. This now gets the 1550 player closer to 1600, which translates to more 1600 games.

My friend once sat waiting in an 1800 game for so long that he was able to eat dinner, clean up, and come back before it has started. Now of course there will be more of a wait for an 1800 game than for a 1500 game, simply because there are fewer 1800 players. But you are perpetuating this problem by cushioning your point loss.

So is the playing field being leveled, or is it being levee'd?
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Post by GTO*Racer » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:47 am

Everything comes in the wash. It's the law of large numbers. Study it.
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Post by Primal Instincts » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:49 am

They do this in Spades also...
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Post by Sterlingchick123 » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:44 am

only weenies do it. makes me laugh.

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Post by American Beauty » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:54 am

If something benefits one, I like to see it benefit all. I see it as an unfair advantage in comparison with with the players who have struggled through the punches.

Perhaps I should use one of my 1650 nics and set table for 1550 players?

Maybe I should pull out my 1800 nic and set tables for 1700 players?

That might even it out some.

Why not, it's nothing off my back, and besides, it all comes out in the wash.
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Post by Sterlingchick123 » Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:57 am

u wont do it cuz u arent a weenie, AB.

doesnt take much brains to figure people out around here.

there are those that protect their points and there are others that are generous with them.

either way, your game is your game and u cant hide it when u sit and show what u got.

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Post by American Beauty » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:47 pm

lol, yeah, I thought about it, but just couldn't do it. :) :P
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Post by Dust In The Wind » Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:44 pm

Posted this in the other tread and it pertains to the same...

I can see both sides of the story here and think one of the solutions is to create more options on the plus and minus option. We have +/- 100 which I think has created some of the problems mentioned in this post because you are going to loss max if a 1600 loses to a 1500. Maybe we go with -20 and all others or -50 and maybe we can make that a variable that the host player would set when creating the game.

The last option I see as the most fesible in a programming sense and the most adaptable for the users set point. Some players don't really care and just want to play a game and what I do is I have nics that I use just for that purpose and play all variations and anyone that wants to sit and play a fun game.

It is very frustrating to build a nic up to a high rating and lose 2 games to a low rated player (luck of the cards) and watch it plunge into the euchre basement (we have deep basements here). I know playing here at Hardwood for as long as I have that I can bring it back up and it's no big deal.

Jonas is it possible that we can make that optional on the players +/- option?
TO BE OR NOT TO BE..... NOW WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT??? TO BE OF COURSE!!!!!

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Post by GTO*Racer » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:26 pm

Yeah, what he said.......
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The High-Rater Huddle

Post by Eennie Meenie » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:29 am

I just don't believe what i have read in this Forum. What is so sad is that American Beauty hasn't done any homework at all. The 1st thing i would like to say is i for one don't Huddle my nic's in any way. The 2nd thing is, i have never written anything in this Forum before and probably won't ever again. When i was playing regularly on the site i would put all of my 1900 nics on the line at least three times a week and i didn't care who my partner was, although in saying that i had my regular Partner Bonnie H. 60% of the time. Now lets just see who the rating system favours. Appoximately 3 months ago one of my nics was on 1924, one point off being able to set an 1850 table. I set the table at 1800, my partners nic was 1923, the two players that joined were 1802 and 1807, we lost the 1st game and lost 23 points each, we won the 2nd game getting 10 points each, and won the 3rd game gaining 11 points each. To cut a long story short we won the match 2-1 and lost points. I lost 3 points and my Partner lost 2 points. So for us to progress we had to win 3 out every 4 games played, sorry American Beauty, not possible on a regular basis. This had happened to us on numerous occasions and in the end we just gave up because the lower rated nics were killing us. The reason players do change their nics before the game starts is because there is no way they can progress up the ladder with a point spread of a hundred plus points, which can be 124 points at times. The only suggestion i can make is that HardWood make the table setting 50+ instead of the 100+. Please believe me, at the moment the lower nics are protected and the higher nics are at such a disadvantage it's a joke. So please if you are going to make such outrageous comments do your homework 1st. This was posted by me so that players realize what a huge advantage the lower nic players have over the Big Boys. But please don't ever tell me that it is point manipulation, if it is, it is by the lower nics.

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