Very Interesting

Red Red_ Wine
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Post by Red Red_ Wine » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:40 am

Me again, if you look at omni's post you will see there are 24 different hands using the proscribed method of dealing. but there are still only 23 possible places you can cut 24 cards. You can click on all 24 cards but as I said before the 24th click/cut would involve picking up the pack and putting it back down unchanged.
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Doc
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Post by Doc » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:58 am

Red Red_ Wine wrote:Me again, if you look at omni's post you will see there are 24 different hands using the proscribed method of dealing. but there are still only 23 possible places you can cut 24 cards. You can click on all 24 cards but as I said before the 24th click/cut would involve picking up the pack and putting it back down unchanged.
I'm kinna tired of this now.....but I see a bigger problem here so I'll address it. As for the 23 places to cut........um ok. But where exactly did I mention "ways to cut without leaving the deck unchanged?" I'm quite certain my comment was "there are 24 possible deals" and the subject of discussion was how many different deals are possilbe in a cut deck game in hw euchre. Now I'm more thrown by the fact that this was overlooked than anything else. I mean, I don't care if ppl want to add humourous or conversational kinds of posts that aren't in keeping with the topic of the thread. But let's not get carried away....I think my point was kinna obvious. :(

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Post by Just_Ice » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:39 am

I see I have inappropriately applied the same theory from spades and hearts to Euchre. That was my mistake, and I apologize. I didn't consider the difference in the deck and that cards were not dealt. I haven't really played Euchre very much. Also, I am not familiar with exactly how HW handles the cuts with Euchre. I assume it's the same as Spades and Hearts.

I do know that in HW to leave the deck uncut you have to click the top card. The card you pick remains the top card. The rest of the cards above the selected card are moved to the bottom.

And, there are not fewer, preset deals when you play on-line at Hardwood (or any other site I know of). As I said, a RNG is used to "mix" the cards, meaning they could end up in any order possible. The same number of possible hands are available on-line as when you play with a real deck.

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Post by Dust In The Wind » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:39 am

Yes after seeing the last post on the hole cards your right, forgot about them and it does in euchre make more of a difference on where you cut. Also 3-way in games where all the cards are not dealt.


My mistake DOC.

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Post by Red Red_ Wine » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:04 pm

The original post questioned the randomness in HW games, and the poster when on to ask how many deals were possible.

Other have described the deal/cut limitations in Hearts and Spades.

The situation in 24 card euchre is:-

The first card has 24 choices of position in the deck and 24 options of card value.

The second card has 23 choices of position in the deck and 23 options of card value.

And so on down to the last card which has 1 choice of position in the deck and 1 option of card value.

This gives a maximum possible number of 4,900 deals without a cut.

Neither a RNG or a human is going to place a different card value into a different position on every deal. This will result in the highest number of deals being somewhat lower than 4,900.

If the cut is factored in with a possibility of being any of the 24 cards chosen by the “cutterâ€
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Just_Ice
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Post by Just_Ice » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:44 pm

Yes. I guess my point is the same situation exists in live Euchre. It's not limited somehow by being on-line.

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Doc
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Post by Doc » Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:04 am

Once again.....You are a little short Red. And you seem more interested in confusing people than focusing on the issue. Especially since I have no idea where those numbers came from.

But for fun I'll give you the correct euchre numbers: There are, in euchre, 42,504 different hands that any one person can get. However, since there are 20 cards dealt to 4 different people, and there is 1 card turned; this means there are 499 trillion different deals possible. Therefore, if HW has 1 million different deals programed into the game. That represents 0.2 millionths of 1 percent of all the possible deals (or 0.0000002%). That this is not very much is the point.

Secondly if you add the cut deck option. Again, assuming there are 1 million deals. This now represents 0.0000048% of all the possible deals......hence, not much difference.

So, in keeping with my point that there is not much variety. As a result, players will see big hands much more often. And this is a bad thing since loners represent 40% of a game, or a couple marches at the right time can basically shut the door on the other team. I would like to know how many hands we are talking about? What order they go in? And what criteria is used to determine them?

P.S. If you have questions about the statistics given above and not my last few questions......then plz make 'em in a new topic.

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Re: Very Interesting

Post by cdoggg674 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:39 pm

All i can say is amen doc!! I would think by now they would be able to perfect a random dealing program.

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LilRed2003_56
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Re: Very Interesting

Post by LilRed2003_56 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:03 pm

If you look closely cdoggg674 you replied to a post that is 3 years old. :lol:
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Jonas
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Re: Very Interesting

Post by Jonas » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 pm

Its an oldie but a goodie :)

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Re: Very Interesting

Post by callme7 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:28 pm

Nice one Jonas. :) :)

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Re: Very Interesting

Post by chrisdoggg674 » Sun May 03, 2009 9:19 am

Evern though it was such old post it truly was VERY INTERESTING :D

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