The G with some Basics.

[Euchre Buff]

jus wanna know from you or other players how much difference the 7s up game will make if it was implimented. alot is being written about it. will it be better for players like myself who is really jus a learner. give me the main positive stuff about it please.
Euchre Buff

[Joe Andrews]

Yes, I agree that the "7's" game is an excellent alternative to the traditional 9's game, the latter of which is the current standard. It would certainly result in a decrease of Loners! I would consider 7's as a side or exhibition event at next year's Grand Prix tournament, if the interest is there. Send an email to me at heartsmoon@aol.com and perhaps, we can have an organized 7's tourney in 2008.

Cheers,
-J

[Euchre Buff]

was told there was cheating last year at GP on a grand scale so they changed the rules this time, what did they do someone and how were they cheatin. dont see the point.
Euchre Buff

[Lucky]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
the only cheatin i saw goin on was the rule chging every 5 mins

[maktub]

jus wanna know from you or other players how much difference the 7s up game will make if it was implimented. alot is being written about it. will it be better for players like myself who is really jus a learner. give me the main positive stuff about it please.
Euchre Buff

This should probably be over at the other post, Revolutions 7, but I wanted to add my thoughts and answer your question as best I could here.

As it is now, in every game there are about 2-4 potential loners. So a team that is down by many points can easily make a comeback. Not by difficult and/or skillful calling, but by the default of loners.
I have recently adopted a saying after I make one of those no-brainer loners, I say, "No Skill Required." And it's true! What skill does it take to hit the tram button? I used to have a bind that said, "So Easy a Bot could do it." Some would actually take offense to it, but I'd run it even after I made one of those brainless loners.
(Personally, I think it's funny to congratulate players for having easy cards like that. I tell my pard to congratulate me when I call on nothing and make it, but anyone can call on cards.)

Anyway, as it is now, there are 7 trump cards, J,J,A,K,Q,10,9 therefore if a player gets dealt even 3 of those trump cards, especially if they are bowers, they have a good chance of pulling and drawing out all other trump. Now, if it were 7 and up, things would change. J,J,A,K,Q,10,9,8,7. What are the odds of drawing out all trump now? More stoppers distributed means a more competitive game, not based on easy cards and mindless loners, but on how the rest of the cards play out. Based on who grabs the lead. Not only that, but more cards in the deck means more cards that can be buried. It would be a more stealthy game and not so much founded in luck as it is now.
Hope that helps.

[callme7]

Oh my Euchre Buff. The 1st thing i would like to say about the two GPs i have attended. Joe Andrews is a wonderful Host and he will break a leg to make sure the players are happy, if they are not he will change things to help them, then he will do some card tricks to put you all at ease, he is great, ask him to do some for you. But Buff you are right, last year in my opinion i caught about 7 couples cheating with their silly little eye movements, body positions, a touch hesitant, there were so many different signals it was a joke. The reason i know this is because i was there to meet the people (I didn't play) i watched for two days solid, and these players knew i was watching, even i could tell what they had in their hands and i was well off the table. Congratulations HW, not one player was from this site. I hate saying this but all over the World live Euchre tournaments are known for their cheating but it's not just Euchre, all live games one way or another are open to this kind of rubbish. There were many complaints made to Joe about last years cheating, so he introduced what you call a bidding board, which means you couldn't see the other players until Trump had been set. (Cardboard screen in the middle of the table placed after the deal and removed once trump was set or made) I will say this, if you are going to play in a live card game, make very sure you know the rules backwards because they will come back to haunt you in one way or another, players lost points this year by being told by the opposing team that they can't do this or that, and the team being questioned didn't have a clue in some cases and forfeited 2 points.
Anyway the best thing about the tourney's is meeting the peeps, stuff the cards i say.

PS. Sorry i missed you Sunday night Joe for those games, got caught up with stuff from NZ. Came to your room early Monday morning but you had already checked out. Nice Job as Host Ty.

Eennie Meenie

The G

[callme7]

MORE BLOCKING scenario's and debates. This really is raising it's ugly head to the extent where players are throwing a huge wobbly at their P's by jumping out of games or just plain cussing them at the table, saying i can't play with an idiot like you for not blocking or the other scenario of overblocking. In fact i know of quite a few now that won't play here because of it, but that's another story. I will do my best to throw some more light on the subject because i believe blocking or non blocking has got to the stage where it really is ruling the roost here in a lot of the games, my opinion anyway. In the last few weeks i have had a # of players emailing to ask different aspects of what to do if they block eg. should they lead Trump etc. i have been through that debate on here before and said what i believed players should do but of course there are exceptions like the percentage block. I am not a blocking fan but the fact of the matter is YOU DO have to block at some stage in some games, ask Brentie lmao. To prove to you, i want you to deal four hands out with a Deck 10s up, you won't have enough cards for the upcard but the point i am trying to make is a LONER just about presents itself on every hand dealt, 9s up is not much better. Now get a deck with 7s up and have a look at the huge contrast of hands, the loner then becomes fairly rare. The 9s up game is the shortest deck you can play Euchre pairs with, it is also known as the lucky game of Euchre where the not so good players can foot it with the best for awhile as the Loner can Bail them out alot of the time, it's up to you. I truly believe BLOCKING is an art which is very hard to perfect, as some very good players just simply block themselves out of the game. The score dictates when to block i believe. Just make sure you DON"T block when you are way behind, that really is the beginning of the end. Choose your blocks carefully lmao. Gl.


Eennie Meenie

The G

[Terry Brett]

One of the reasons blocking is used is because the reward for landing a loner is overinflated at 4 pts using a 9's up deck, particularly when the game winning score is set at 10. Generally one loner landed can finish the game and is very difficult to drag back.
Instead of attempting euchre gymnastics and blocking each prospective loner that suits your fancy, perhaps 3 pts for a loner would be more reasonable for a 9's up deck, thus causing the more athletic blockers to settle down and play cards.
If HW deems to set up the 7's up euchre option I can see a case for the 4pt loner as it would be rarer and therefore the reward should reflect the difficulty.

[callme7]

Uugh, yes it is that Double lead or Double ditching that bugs alot of players and the wondering why they get set as a result. This is my answer to an IM sent to me last week, the answer to me is very simple, or the way i would arrange my hand is simple, some may do it another way and that's fine. This is a double ditching scenario but the effect and result is the same most of the time as a double lead. My P orders me up or i pickup, in my hand i have Ace and 10 of spades which is trump, Ace of Clubs and the 9 and Queen of Hearts. Opposition lead a Diamond, my P trumps it, i throw off the 9 of Hearts, your P in my opinion should lead back anything but a Heart, unless i ditch the Ace or King of that suit, even then it can be tricky. The same will apply for the Opposition. If you have the lead and the person that had the chance to Cleanse their hand (discarding) ditches a small card of a certain suit and you take the trick, LEAD the suit that they ditched back to them, you might not take the trick but you put your P in a great position to do so, coz i am willing to bet they have another one of that suit. Try it. Hope this helps a little.

Eennie Meenie

The G

[callme7]

Have been asked a fair amount lately. G what is the right way to play this game, i laughed and said Get 20 of the best players around, take some note paper, sit and listen. There is no right way to play this game but there are rules on the percentages of it.
The great player knows how to play a certain way at a particular time, haha it's called intuition. Intuition scores more points in this game than any player will know, and it's that great word that makes great players. We can all follow stupid percentages but those crunch calls come from the Gut. Just ask a good player why he plays a certain way sometimes, they will most likely say, i don't know i just had a feeling. Earlier in this thread i told players to ask the good players for help because there is no way you can learn from the one source.
I will bet if you asked 20 Top players to throw some good advice in the arena you will come away with 20 different fantastic ideas to work on your game. That's how intuition kicks in i believe.
I have watched some truly fantastic exponents of Euchre and i believe some of them play in the state of Zen. That word to me means "Automatic Focus" Once you think too much the state falls away. So just keep asking the good players, you will surely improve.
I don't want to meet you on the table in the Zen state, i will get fried.


Eennie Meenie

The G

[maktub]

I have an excellent suggestion that I would like to add to the mix. I hope you don't mind if I do.

The Top 20 is one thing, but in reality it tends to be a Top Few. The same Few playing amongst themselves. Which is all fine and good. I have no doubt that much can be learned from astute observation of these games, and I am not knocking any; my best friends are on the Top 25. However, the real place of learning and the true test of skill is in the tourney rooms. This is where the question is answered: How adaptable are you?
Oh, one might find themselves paired up with a 1300 player... and will have to learn to make due. (land on your feet, you fool!)

Another benefit tourney rooms offer is variety. One of my favorite varieties is a "Loners Only" tourney. In this tourney, if you call you must go alone (and yes its set for STD). Here we learn how easy it can be to make it on very little. Take chances and risks. In a tourney like that, there is no choice, you must! That is just one example of the variety tourneys rooms offer. And of course in a tourney like that, the games are set for social. There are even a couple rooms where all the games are social.
I played in one tourney where the upcard was turned and the dealer's partner had to tell them what to call not only that, but they had to go alone. This forced me to consider what was in my partners hand, instead of my own. It's a very good exercise.

Some of the best players I have ever parded with have never been on the Top 25, so keep your eyes open and give it a try.

*Smiles

[up a crk]

Reading the previous post I dont think they meant someone on the top 25 list, rather 20 good players.

As far as tourney's go, IF you have the patience then they can be fun, but i wouldnt go as far as saying the true test of skill is the tourney room.
Maybe the true test of patience, the true test of willpower (not throwing your keyboard across the room), but the real place of learning?

A good player already knows how to make it on very little, a good player already knows how to take chances and risks, and every game a good player plays they are considering what is in their partners hand.

I'm not trying to bash tourney's, they can be fun. But as far as being the "real place of learning and the true test of skill" sorry ill play with the bots.

Someone wants to improve their game? PLAY. ...tourney's, unrated games, bots, with grandma , with aunt bertha, doesnt matter who. nothing beats experience wherever it may come from.


editors note: none of the previous authors were harrassed in the making of this post

[maktub]

I can neither agree nor disagree with your argument.

However, my suggestion was for the inexperienced 'not-so-good' player. The one that sits as a watcher in the high-rated games (those games always attract an audience and a heckler or two ).
Perhaps a better wording would be that tourney rooms are a good, nay, are a better place for a testing/training ground than Smoots is.
But I always advocate mixing things up and cross-training. If you are a weight-lifter, I suggest trying yoga. If you workout on the tred mill, then by all means get some circuit training in. I feel tourney rooms offer more flexibility, more padding for someone in training. More variety makes for a more agile player.

[Terry Brett]

More variety makes for a more agile player.

I'm all for variety with agility.....sign me up....in fact sign me up twice

[x MISSY x]

Another thing that would be helpful for a new player is for people to be more vocal about plays..Like today i didnt realize how many times I called next till my opponent told me that it was what won the game.

I read thru the beggining of this post and WoW i think it will help. Apparently i double or wutever that was called. N i cross the river far to much.