The G with some Basics.

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Dust In The Wind
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Post by Dust In The Wind » Fri May 25, 2007 6:34 pm

Deception that succeeds at the table is 10x's the reward. I know what I have and to keep you guessing at the possiblites is my goal to achieve my goal.

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TO BE OR NOT TO BE..... NOW WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT??? TO BE OF COURSE!!!!!

up a crk
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the basics

Post by up a crk » Sun May 27, 2007 6:24 pm

Jack is up card, your p has 1 trump and decides to block, then leads their one trump. WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is it customary to lead your only trump when you block????

It makes no sense at all, you are potentially robbing your partner of valuable trump that might otherwise be used to turn a terrible block by said partner into a point.

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Post by callme7 » Sun May 27, 2007 8:23 pm

Nice question "up a crk" It's a little bit of a 50/50 thing, remember that most Blocks are wrong anyway, they are wrong to the extent that normally the opposition have the stopper but it's about a 5% shot that your P has a point, or a 1 in 20 shot. Hey where do i get these figures from, just by watching many many games even before coming to HW. I don't always lead that one Trump. If you don't lead that trump i would lead the long suit which consist of 6 cards, in other words if Block is on Red lead Black, they probably haven't got next. But it's not a bad idea to lead that one Trump for the reason your P might have the Ace or Left Bower and that would probably get the right Bower out of the way in the 1st round. Now if you have an Ace offsuit and your P has another Trump anything could happen. In my opinion if you do lead that one Trump you are probably giving your P the best chance of getting a point if the block is bad. If the Block is good it makes no difference what you lead. If you lead offsuit remember the player that was blocked has the benefit of a "cleansed" hand, ie. discarding. If i have to say to you which is the better option i would tell you lead the one Trump. Hope this helps a little. :)

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up a crk
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Post by up a crk » Mon May 28, 2007 5:10 pm

I dont see the logic in leading trump at all, even with your insight it still makes no sense.

You say what if your partner had the left or ace and you lead trump, well now their left or ace is gone, along with your only trump, so now your sitting powerless to cut anything and i just lost the left.

Ok suppose I have two trump , the left and ten. You just lead your only trump, and i have to play the left to draw out the right. again, your sitting powerless to cut anything, and i have the ten, wich in most cases is going to be taken on the next lead.

And as far as leading offsuit if you watch 8-10 times the loner owner keeps same color unless they have ace off.

I cant come up with a scenario where leading trump could help anyone but the opposition. Thanx for trying to clear this up for me.

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Post by callme7 » Mon May 28, 2007 6:23 pm

As i said, it is a little bit of a 50/50 thing mainly because you have ordered a player the Right Bower when your hand has no show of succeeding on it's own merit. Just remember it is supposidly a Block. When you order the opposition in a normal NO block situation it is imperitive if your P has Trump, that they lead them, as you have just gifted the opposition a card to play against you. I still think this applies here. If you did lead Offsuit i feel the chance is less because the person that was ordered may well take that trick without using trump, if that's the case your chance of getting a point then is just about zero. I am assuming when the Block was ordered the player ordering had no aces, so the player that was ordered may well have those as well. I still stand by the rule and %, that if you order trump on the opposition, trump must be led to give you the best shot at success. Also lets say your P has the Ace with one other trump and two off aces, the player to your left has the Left Bower bare and the player you ordered has the right Bower bare, you lead your only trump, whammo you have grabbed the left and right in one lead, your P now has the boss trump with two off Aces. I could give you a 100 scenario's, that's just one. If you had led the offsuit you surely wouldn' t have acheived the same result. It's a tough one though. GL. :)

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Post by up a crk » Mon May 28, 2007 7:50 pm

Thanks for your reply G, we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. :)

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Post by callme7 » Mon May 28, 2007 8:18 pm

Ok you seem to be very negative on what the outcome could be. I can give you 100 scenario's but i won't waste my time, also in an ordinary situation of ordering the opposition up if your P dosen't lead trump you will be set most of the time unless you have a freak hand, that's a fact. It seems you are hell bent on not seeing where leading trump in that situation could benefit you. I gave you one perfect example but you don't recogize it. I for one are not a great Trump leader, Hence my Nics meaning Creek Crosser, but in this situation and the scenario i gave you please don't tell me that by leading offsuit is a better option. I am extremely open to ideas and situations but i won't argue about something when i know the % is on my side. You are the one Blocking Sir in the 1st seat with ONE trump, not your P who has the two trump and two off aces. thanks for your input. I would very much like to see you play, invite me. Once again good luck i think you might need it. :)

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Post by In2ition » Mon May 28, 2007 8:26 pm

I would have thought that results speak for themselves. You asked for advice Up A Crk, you received it. Had you taken the advice you would have found that it was pretty sound. As someone who has been watching this post and following the advice given, i can honestly say that i have not been led astray thus far.

All i can suggest is that you find the paddle you have clearly lost (for all those who do not know the expression.... Up A Creek Without A Paddle) and try what has been suggested. It works in your favour without a doubt. Nothing in euchre is 100%..... but when there are plays that keep the percentage above 50/50, then we'd be fools not to take advantage of them. If you choose not to..... then i look forward to seeing you in a 1400 game.

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Post by grandmaS » Mon May 28, 2007 8:34 pm

Ok it is nice of G to give tips and helps, and if you want to take them great if you don't great.

Saying agree to disagee is fine, but lets not start bashing either way. There are tips here for those who want to use them, its a discussion board and its ok to disagree as long as it doesn't start getting mean.

Now have some chocolate chip cookies, play a few games, test out your theroys and let this rest please.
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Post by up a crk » Mon May 28, 2007 8:45 pm

Who do you think you are? I never asked for advice, it was a question as to why people did something.

Iwas not trying to be rude, and dont see where i was. I guess i could go make another name for the forum so i have someone else to uphold my opinions like you did (again).

Im not going to waste my time trying to argue with you. thank you for your opinion thats all i was asking for. I dont need you to teach me anything, nor did I ever ask you to.

I think its great that you put this post on here for players to read, it is great that they might actually learn something. Thanks for your reply I got exactly what i thought i would out of somone as gifted as you are :)

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Re: the basics

Post by In2ition » Mon May 28, 2007 9:09 pm

up a crk wrote:Jack is up card, your p has 1 trump and decides to block, then leads their one trump. WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is it customary to lead your only trump when you block????
Who do you think you are? I never asked for advice, it was a question as to why people did something.
This has been one of the longest postings i've ever seen. It's lasted this long for a very good reason. Because the advice given is spot on, and the questions that have been asked have been answered promptly and with the utmost respect for the way HW works.

You asked your question, had it answered, and then proceeded to argue the point. this helps no-one. If you need to pursue an issue then find G, or many of the others that have replied on here with help, in HW or send a PM. G started this posting to share his views and opinions on how to play this game as it applies to HW. Put very simply.... everything that has been posted here works. The percentages are in your favour if you follow every single step that has been written here. There is simply no arguement for that.

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Post by callme7 » Mon May 28, 2007 9:15 pm

"up a crk" You asked me for an opinion and scenario where it would be better to lead trump in that situation, i gave that to you and now you are arguing with yourself. I am truly sorry if you don't believe in %s or if i offended you, but i won't agree on something that i know is the wrong option percentage wise, sorry you will have to find someone else to do that. Ask yourself this though, do you give yourself the best chance in a game the way you play it. Invite me to play with you and help me out. I have done my best to give you an opinion of how leading trump would be a better call, i certainly did that. To say that you got the answer you thought you would from me is very strange, why bother asking. GL :)

Eennie Meenie

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Post by grandmaS » Mon May 28, 2007 9:18 pm

One thing you missed, its not just G's board, everyone has a right to post questions and discuss whether they feel the answers are right or wrong in a discussing not arguing or put down way.

Your right it is a very long post and has given many great advice, which has been appreciated.

But your wrong to tell anyone they don't have the right to question the answers or statements given here.

Please stop

G can give his oppinions and answers, everyone can say they are great or they don't understand it or they disagree, and if they choose to say why thats cool too. But no attacts from either side please
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Post by callme7 » Mon May 28, 2007 9:21 pm

Point taken GrandmaS, i am not here to offend anyone or force my style of play on others. :)

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Post by 2nd heart » Mon May 28, 2007 9:26 pm

Just to let you know Gary. I've followed your advice and improved my playing and rating tremendously. I still get a bit confused with cross the creek but next works for me 9 times out of ten. The one thing that I get harrassed about is when I call 2 suited with 3 trump but no bowers. Players have told me I should lead trump and draw the bowers but what works for me is to play my off suit. I might take one but if I don't, either my p does or I draw at least one bower. If I see my p has no trump, I then lead my high trump to take the 2nd bower (hopefully). It works about 75% of the time. Can you tell me how you play it?

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