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The G with some Basics.

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:18 am
by callme7
I have been asked by a # of players to help them with different plays in this Great game. I for one will not tell players how to play the game as intuition has a wonderful part to play, but there are some basic rules that apply to let the % come into your favour over a period of time. I will attempt to help with these.

(1) The Next call: = if the deal is turned down say Diamonds, the player in the 1st seat calls Hearts. This is not an automatic call but can be a good one as the Dealers P didn't order it. You don't have to have a strong hand to call Next. If the 2nd seat calls Next ( the dealers P ) they would have to be very strong in Hearts as the Dealer has nothing or is waiting for a Black call.

(2) Crossing the Creek: = If the Deal is turned down say Diamonds, the player in the 1st seat calls Black, you are looking for trouble with this call unless you are strong as % wise your P is more than likely waiting for a next call. Please remember that these are basic % tips, i am not saying not to call the opposite, but be careful. (I Love This Call)

(3) Leading Trump: In General leading trump is a positive but by no means Gospel. If you know your Ps play leading Trump to them could kill them in the 1st round, but in general if you have a Bower lead it. This can be a very touchy subject with some players. I find that players who consistantly want Trump lead to them will never make a thin call. I believe Offsuit play is the key to this game, Trump takes care of itself. Experiment with leading Offsuits as this is the crux of good cross Trumping.

(4) Ordering the Opposition: It is imperitive that you or your P leads Trump here if you have one.

(5) Double Leading Offsuit to your P: All i will say here is DON'T double lead an Offsuit to your P until Trump has been lead, you will set Him/Her unless they are very strong. But a double lead to the opposition to the player on your left can reap big dividends as they will have to play a high card to stop your P Trumping in.

(6) Leading Trump when in Opposition: This can be a huge weapon especially if you or your P has Aces, it brings them into play, if you lead trump and you take that trick lead them again if you have one. It will come down to the Ace Offsuits in the last two rounds. Once you have stopped their 2 points it's fairly certain you won't set them by leading Offsuit at them.

(7) The 4TH and 5TH Card: If you make Trump and you take the 1st three
tricks and you have one Trump and a lousy Offsuit left DON'T lead trump, your P may have two Aces in hand. Lead the Offsuit in hope that your P has the Ace, and you will get the last. What i am really saying here is, Don't lead trump on the 4th card unless you are pretty sure you can take the 5th trick.

(8) Blocking: This is the most talked about subject in Euchre bar none. Without a doubt you do have to block with a Deck of cards 9s up. You will find in New Zealand and Australia where the game is played with a deck of 7s up Blocking is not that common. What i will say on Blocking is that if you are in a strong position, ie. you are on 8 or 9 and the opposition are 5, 6 or 7 and they turn up a Bower or a card that you have none of and have no Aces i would make that Insurance Block because % wise you will go out on your deal. Give them 2. I will not get into a Blocking debate as we all see it differently. I have seen some very good players get slaughtered by not blocking at a crucial time of the game when it was common sense to do so. I did a little Study on HW potential Loners and over 1000 games which i watched over 18mths. Every 3.65 Hands dealt are potential Loners, thats why i am sure a Block is required at some stage in some Games. When i 1st came into HW i never Blocked but the 9s up Deck got me in the end. Just remember though that approximately 70% of Blocks are Wrong.

(9) What Do I Lead To My P: A general Rule to take note of is that there are Potentially 7 Trump Cards, 6 Long suit and 5 Next one's. If my P Makes Trump and i lead a Spade Ace Offsuit and my P ditches say a small Heart and i take that trick i would NOT lead a Heart to Him/Her as that would tell me in general that % wise He/She is 2 suited with any luck. If my P ditched a big Heart like the Ace or King i would possibly lead a Heart back even if i had trump, the Trump might come in handy later.

(10) 3RD Seat Call: This is the toughest seat to call from as everyone has passed except the Dealer. If you call from this seat a strong hand is imperitive. A good seat to pass on.

(11) Final Point: In general Trump should be lead before you start leading Aces but an Ace lead in the 1st round can be ok if the opposition has turned down Red and you lead a Black Ace or Vice Versa, Hey 75% of the time its good.

Summary: I have just touched on some of the things i have been asked, but i hope you get something out of them. If there is something else i can help with let me know. We are all still learning. Euchre is the Hardest easiest game to Master.

Eennie Mennie,

The G.

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:01 am
by Dust In The Wind
This was a good writeup call and as you pointed out yes there is no set of "rules that will ever be 100% or give you 100% wins but if you follow some basic observations and use the play concepts you will find your winning more. Yes you do have to stray from the path here and there and use that gut feeling, but watch what you eat before you beleive that gut.... SPAM does strange things to it no mater how ya cook it.

One of the things I always have had a problem with is the block and how/when to use it and would guess it depends on where you sit according to the bid. I have called the block to find my Pard had the loner and opts. none and we got 2 instead of 4. Question here would have been if the opts. had decided to block and still got 2 with the euchre or take the chance they don't and get the 4.

Another is being the first bidder (seen many play this way) always call never pass....... how do you determine what your going to call with 4 9's and a 10? or any other number of hands that have nothing. Are you not setting yourself up for the euchre and lossing 2?

JUST DUST

PS - I don't think I have had SPAM since I was a kid, never had the desire to buy it.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:03 pm
by SaxyLilDevil
Very nicely said Garry. I have to agree on everything you said, and also that it will be very helpful to me and alot of other people i'm sure. I have always admired the G's style of play,He is definently the one to ask for any questions when it comes to the game of Euchre.Keep em coming G.

Can you take it a bit further

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:26 am
by The Hobbit
Thanks for an excellant article G. I know what alot of players might think, that it's kids stuff and we know it all. I am a reasonable player, 2 1700s and an 1800, but i will improve with this article. One question i will ask, what the hell can we do about the Loner problem so we don't have to block so much? someone must have a real answer to this tragic scenario. We have been told by the powers to be that the deal is random, but i just don't see it. Can you add anything to this at all?

Hobbit

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:56 am
by callme7
Thank you Hobbit for your kind words. The two biggest things we have to contend with in HW are (1) Blocking (2) The randomness of the deal, both are linked. I believe they can be overcome, but in saying this i don't believe HW will do anything and i can't blame them for that as a major programming change would have to take place. The question i would ask is how random can you be with a Deck 9s up, not very much i'm afraid. In the 1st part of the article i mentioned that New Zealand and Australia played the game with 7s up, and to 11 points, with this scenario Loners and Blocking does happen but on a scale far less than in HW. Also with the 7s up scenario the top players really were the top players as the Loners don't dictate the outcome of the game anywhere near as much. The 2nd Scenario i would like to mention is i would like to see all games to 11 points and just 3 for the Loner, then even if one team got three in a game they still wouldn't have won. Hope i have given some food for thought.

Eennie Mennie,

The G

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:48 am
by callme7
NEXT & CROSSING THE CREEK

I am still getting players asking that i explain the Next call, and Crossing the Creek in more detail, and when i really thought about it, i made a bad job of it for the players who are just starting out. Ok the cards have been dealt and a Spade is the up card and everyone has passed. The dealer turns the Spade down and the 1st player to get a say is called the 1st seat. What the 1st seat player has to do is think of their hand as Ten cards not Five, you must think of your PARTNER in this call unless you have a hand that will succeed on it's own merit. Let's say you have in your hand ( Jack of clubs, 10 of daimonds, Queen of daimonds, Ace of hearts and the 9 of spades ) Do not pass on a hand like this, to me this is a classic Next hand. Make clubs trump. Lead the Ace, 75% of the time it will take the 1st trick, you probably need your P to take one and the right Bower you hold will get the third. To call red here would % wise be a disaster, that is Crossing the Creek. ( calling into the oppositions hand % wise ) All things being equal you should get a point with this hand. The reason you go next most of the time in the 1st seat is that if the Dealers Partner didn't order up and they turn the Spade down they are more than likely wanting a red call, DON'T call it for them. Sure cross the creek if you can get them but remember your P mightn't be much help. If you know your partners play and the call goes to them (3rd seat) because you and the 2nd seat have passed your partner should realize that by you passing they are probably on their own ie. you won't be much help as you didn't call Next and your hand was not good enough on it's own merit to cross the creek. I have always believed and it has proven over many years that the 3rd seat is a good one to pass on unless you have the goods. If you doubt the strength of the Next call write down how many times you Cross the Creek and are successful, and do the same for next. I will bet my Right Bower over a year that Next will be a Mile in front. In saying all of this i am the cronic Creek Crosser, just practise the execution of the hand, it's tough. Good Luck. :)

Eennie Meenie,

The G.

Good post!

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:06 am
by Joe Andrews
I agree, the accomplished player is very familiar with all of these tactics, particularly, "blocking" (sometimes called "donating",) and "Next", which is a basic technique - and very sound, too.

Check out my book "The Complete Win At Euchre", which has several chapters and illustrated hands featuring most of the topics covered in this thread.

Enjoy life - Play Euchre! :lol:

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:17 pm
by The Hobbit
G what is your opinion about blocking from the 3rd seat? I realize that blocking takes part from the 1st but in the last week or so i have experienced players doing it from the 3rd. I haven't seen one successful one.

The Hobbit

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:55 pm
by callme7
Hobbit you partly answered your own question about blocking from the Third seat when you said none were successful. Just remember though that if you do block from this seat and your P is known to you and they block, what you could be saying to them is i don't trust you. I have blocked from the 3rd on very few occasions, most were succesful. The reason i blocked from here was that (a) A red Bower was the up card. (b) my P was a known NON blocker (c) i had a laydown Black Loner (d) the score was 9-6 to us. With that set of scenario's in front of me i would block from the third.
There is one other point i would like to make about this blocking debate, i truly don't understand when even the NON blocking fraternity are sitting on 9 and the opposition on 6 or 7 a Bower is the up card and the player in the 1st seat has absolutely nothing and i mean nothing and they won't order it, guys this is one time the % is in your favour. Make that Insurance block. There are a few players with Profiles stating that you shouldn't block "learn how to defend a Loner" well i am sorry to say that unless you have Aces or have the Loner covered, you are in the Cactus especially with the 9s up deck. :D

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:17 pm
by Euchre Buff
Just like to say that this article is excellent but can you take it any further G. I have been playing the game for about a year and watch some of the good players on here and it is amazing how many times they hit their partners hand. Is this something that they work out before they play or is it a call that is made on what has been turned down. I have played Pogo, Mystic, and Yahoo but feel the playing standard on here is the best by far. Hope you can take this a little further, i don't think i would be the only player interested either, thanks.

Euchre Buff.

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:50 am
by maggs_01
I'm gonna get it right someday Gary and surprise the hell outta myself!

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:02 am
by callme7
Maggs you play great. This game i believe is 70% Luck, 15% Skill and 15% Intuition, if ya have no luck the skill and intuition mean zilch. Like all of us keep practising lol.

Eennie Meenie

The G

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:26 pm
by maggs_01
There are days when I can do no wrong. How can you mess up a hand that's all trump? Other days, I'll get a fistful of 9's n 10's almost every hand. Hardwood deals have a lot to do with it as well as what tables and seats you choose. The odd day there are actual equal deals and that confuses me. LOL

The G with some basics

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:51 pm
by The G's Multiple Personas
:lol: :lol: :lol: Thats neat how you make a post, then create new usernames to reply to it.

Thank you for a good laugh, I really needed that :lol: :lol: :lol:

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:28 pm
by callme7
I will try and answer your query Euchre Buff. The top players hit their Partners hand on a regular basis because of what their P or the opposition turns down. As you will know there are two phases to the calling, the 1st is when you pass or order the deal, this is very much a call on your own hands merit. Once the deal has been turned down and if you get to call, your partners hand MUST be taken into consideration, especially in the 1st and 2nd seat unless you have a loner. If you don't think of your P in this call you might as well play singles or cutthroat. It really is just going back to the basics as i mentioned earlier in this forum. You can have a planned strategy with your P if you know their play and this will help at some stage of the games you play, but with euchre you can't be too fixed in your ways because every hand is different. I hear on a daily basis players complaining ( I do as well ) that they can't hit their Ps hand, most of the time it is because in the second round of calling the player that calls is calling their hand and not taking their Ps into consideration, ok maybe not all the time but i believe if ya go back to the basics of Next and Crossing the Creek calls, most of this will fall back into place. One exception is bad cards, hahaha don't ask.
I hope this helps a little. I won't take this any further as you put it, as i feel that would be pushing my personal style on to you and believe me Buff i play funny at times, but i will try and answer any specific question that players may have. GL :)

Eennie Meenie

The G.