Guides aren't the problem with guides

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Doc
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Guides aren't the problem with guides

Post by Doc » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:07 pm

I keep seeing topics of problems with guides. But most of the guides I know and even that I see posting here seem like ok human beings (the ogre's ok too i guess). So that leaves only admin to take the blame.

Surely you folks getting paid realize that guides are human and that they may naturally take to different folks at HW, not to mention how differently they may intrupert the rules. Personally the more trust worthy ppl we got with buttons that can kick ppl that are stalling and fix problems, the better. But once a guide takes an action like a sclience or censors a nic I understand the responsibility to support the decission.....even if it is questionable.

As such, all you need to do is not have guides censoring nics/profiles unless they are CLEARLY offensive. By that I mean racial intollerance or religious bigotry or things of this nature. But a nic that isn't clearly offensive to anyone should simply be reported to admin. Then you guys can figure out who amongst you is the most level headed person with the best sence of humour, and that person should go through the list every-so-often and decided.

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Dust In The Wind
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Post by Dust In The Wind » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:02 pm

LOL, Thanks Doc


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Post by Wildest Child » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:21 am

Doc,

Bravo and well put! That sort of system for approving or not approving nics sounds super to me! I would much rather see management make those calls.


WC

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Post by HEXA » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:27 pm

Well, I think it is already that way, so to speak.

We have a set of "guidelines" for which we can make nics from. The TOS rules are pretty explanatory about what nics cannot be made. Common sense will also tell you what cannot be made on a family site, and The gray areas are the nics i think people have problems (guide & players) with determining answers to questions like: should i make it? (the player) /and/ should i censor it? (the guide)

But in the end.. Keep in mind when a nic is censored by a guide, a player can still get a 2nd opinion from admin by emailing support. They do have the final say regardless of the guide's reason (justification) for taking it. And can/will give the name back if they disagree with the taking of it.

PS...When it comes to topics like religious nics.. None of them belong on HW. Whether nice and fluffy (whatever), or offensive as you mentioned. The TOS rule states to avoid them ALL, so that we can avoid discussions that can arise from them being present. It isnt a difficult rule to follow, and since no one person wants to be the judge of what religious nic is offensive and what isnt (and one person shouldnt, that would be hypocrisy).. It really IS best to avoid them all.


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XAmaltheaX
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Post by XAmaltheaX » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:59 am

HEXA wrote:We have a set of "guidelines" for which we can make nics from. The TOS rules are pretty explanatory about what nics cannot be made. Common sense will also tell you what cannot be made on a family site, and The gray areas are the nics i think people have problems (guide & players) with determining answers to questions like: should i make it? (the player) /and/ should i censor it? (the guide)
Hexa the problem are those in gray area. Anything can be gray area if someone wants to see it that way. Thats why there were multiple discussions, censoring and banning when it came to urban dictionary.
For example the nick "Doc" in urban dictionary means "a new street drug that's a combination of amphetamine and a hallucinogen (similar to LSD)".
And thats the problem I think Doc was trying to emphasize. Nicks that are in gray area are not in all cases CLEARLY offensive. And when censoring every nick that one think is in the gray area you get chaos.

Someone can argue that he got his nick censored cause it was in the gray area, while he sees that another person is walking around with the nick that is also in the gray area but that person is friends with some guides. (for example they censored my Queen of What the Hell, since a guide thought Hell is offensive, while there is a nick BUTTHEAD walking around the lobby no problem).
So in this case I had two things to do: 1) report this to the admins - hey thats not fair he should be censored too ... or... give me my nick back
2) just not care.
I chose not to care just because I try not to waste my energy on nothing, so I made a nick Queen of What the Xell. Xell is apparently acceptable.

In both cases you get frustrated and thats why you have alot of unhappy people on HW.

And when it comes to second opinion, I again agree with Doc
But once a guide takes an action like a silence or censors a nic I understand the responsibility to support the decission.....even if it is questionable.
I have never had any problems with guides. Well I had with just one guide. What do guides do when they constantly have problems with one person? They censor, silence or report him/her to admins and it gets taken care of.
What are my options when having problems with just one guide all the time? Isnt that weird that I never had issues with other guides if Im a problem maker? Do I report it? Lol. Yes, it worked big time.

That again frustrates.

But ya, I guess the Ogre is ok :)
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Post by Sweetness n Light » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:06 am

Yessssssssssss. Could not agree more. The problem is the system.... as it stands. My previous post, widely misinterpreted, with focussing on the detail, missed the big pic, I got response indicating i should report any concerns about a particular Guide /player . a Guide responded in point form selfdefense .. NONE OF THIS WAS RELEVANT. The Big picture is the system itself .. not the individuals (PLAYERS/GUIDES) within it.

Values and attitudes are inherent in us all / checks and balances are necessary in any system to mediate that fairness justice and parity apply to, AND ARE SEEN TO APPLY TO ALL at any given time, ..... even dusty ogres, despite the sneezing!!

Cheers
Sweetness n Light

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Post by American Beauty » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:35 pm

On gray area nics, we usually ask around the opinions of others before censoring. Kinda like a powwow. That way we can get a concensus, and allow for other interpretations. I do this pretty much on a daily basis.

And Yes! Administration has asked guides to return certain names that have been playerized. So if you feel a name should not have been taken, definitely write and ask that it be restored.

In other words, we don't have the last word. Our decisions concerning name censors can be appealed to a 'higher court' so to speak. Every time I take a nic, I inform players of this right, because it's your right as a player, and one that wont be denied.

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Post by Dust In The Wind » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:21 am

WOW Da Orge has 2 votes LOL


JUST DUST

PS but your right Admin does have the final say, Guides might make the intial runing but many nics have been given back, some not. Sorry if I took one you made innocently, but I have to see it through an Ogre's eyes and we are all CROSSEYED, LOL.
TO BE OR NOT TO BE..... NOW WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT??? TO BE OF COURSE!!!!!

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Post by Butthead » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:19 am

Hexa the problem are those in gray area. Anything can be gray area if someone wants to see it that way. Thats why there were multiple discussions, censoring and banning when it came to urban dictionary.
For example the nick "Doc" in urban dictionary means "a new street drug that's a combination of amphetamine and a hallucinogen (similar to LSD)".
And thats the problem I think Doc was trying to emphasize.
OMG! THIS IS REDICULOUS! EVERYONE who knows who "DOC" or Tom is KNOWS he is a VERY INTELLIGENT and CARING MAN who is VERY MATURE..and would NEVER refer to DRUGS as his nic! That is what is one of the MAIN problems when people from OTHER countries who play on American sites need to UNDERSTAND American PHRASING as it CAN be DIFFERENT than THEIR OWN Countries Slang meanings! (In the USA ...."Doc" is short for DOCTOR of MEDICINE....a HEALTH PROFESSIONAL...Not referring to DAMAGING DRUGS such as LSD!)..........
Someone can argue that he got his nick censored cause it was in the gray area, while he sees that another person is walking around with the nick that is also in the gray area but that person is friends with some guides. (for example they censored my Queen of What the Hell, since a guide thought Hell is offensive, while there is a nick BUTTHEAD walking around the lobby no problem).
So in this case I had two things to do: 1) report this to the admins - hey thats not fair he should be censored too ... or... give me my nick back
2) just not care.
I chose not to care just because I try not to waste my energy on nothing, so I made a nick Queen of What the Xell. Xell is apparently acceptable.

OMG! AGAIN.....This AMAL thinks very WRONG! MAYBE in YOUR country HELL is NOT Offensive....but here in AMERICA, it has TWO meanings! 1) SWEARING WORD.... 2) RELIGIOUS TERM.... and if you look at TOS ...NO REFERENCES to RELIGION can be used in a nic! (ALSO, you OBVIOUSLY went AGAINST TOS to re do your nic as "QUEEN OF WHAT THE XELL" so you COULD get AROUND the TOS FILTERS)! .......And as for where MY nic is concerned... it HAS been WELL KNOWN NOT to be offensive.... but in fact IS a cartoon show in the USA as well as a LOVED HUMOUROUS CHARACTER in the USA as well! (AGAIN, a Difference between TWO DIFFERENT Countries "Cultures").... So in short....I HIGHLY RECOMMEND.......IF a person decides to play on an AMERICAN site....RESPECT the AMERICAN CULTURE and SLANG....as I would RESPECT ANY Countries SIte I was PLAYING ON! May EVERYONE PLEASE GET ALONG! Hardwood IS a FRIENDLY FAMILY Site, and should NOT be looked at in ANY other way! "Life is TOO SHORT to get upset with each other" HARDWOOD is an ENTERTAINMENT Venue... Lets KEEP IT That way! HUGZ TO ALL! ....One more little TidBit..... ANYONE who KNOWS me, KNOWS I mean NO HARM to ANYONE... infact I TRY to HELP EVERYONE I POSSIBLY CAN! Amal...If you care to remember.... You even Met ME IN PERSON last year at the GP.... so PLEASE THINK BEFORE you SLAM people in this forum! I hold NO grudges... I just wanted to CLEAR any mis understandings! ........Signed "Buttthead (Jeff).
Last edited by Butthead on Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by XAmaltheaX » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:35 am

Omg Butthead LMAO. I am so sorry if you saw this as an attack on you lol it really wasnt the point at all. I was just trying to explain how gray area nicks are discussable and often cause unhappiness among players. I really have nothing against you or against your nick and I appologise for using your name as an example. What can I say, I was trying to give an example and your name popped to my head lol.
Yes I know who butthead was. The thing is if I made a nick Butt or Ass it would be offensive. My hell wasnt allowed, but devil is. Get it? (again, I have nothing against you or your name)
Its gray area and I was trying to make a point that gray area nicks shouldnt be censored unless they are really really offensive.

When it comes to american site, well I was told it is international.

Again sorry if I gave you any ideas that Im attacking you on the forum, I guess I really need to improve my english :/
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Post by Butthead » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:45 am

Apology accepted AMAL..and again...NO harm or offense taken! I just also wanted to clear any mis understandings about different cultures or slang meanings. I hope everyone ALWAYS gets along... and again... HARDWOOD is a FAMILY orientated ENTERTAINMENT venue.... I hope we ALL can see it for its VALUE and NOT a reference site for offenses! ALSO as a SIDE NOTE.... I apologize IF I offend ANYONE in the lobby the way I spell because I do it "ON PURPOSE" to make "FUN OF MYSELF" to make OTHERS laugh and have a better day than they might have at hand... I mean NO HARM! I find it EASY to make FUN of MYSELF to BENEFIT OTHERS, because IF I CAN make just ONE PERSONS day a little better.... That makes MY DAY even BRIGHTER!!! So again, I dont mean ANY harm in the way I present Buttthead in lobby... If ANYTHING, I try to put buttthead Below everyone else INSTEAD of on a pedistal! Have a GREAT DAY! HUGS to ALL!!! (Of course...Buttthead would type it saying.... "Havez a GRATE day! HUGGZ tew AWL!")

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Post by XAmaltheaX » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:46 am

[quote="Butthead"] OMG! THIS IS REDICULOUS! EVERYONE who knows who "DOC" or Tom is KNOWS he is a VERY INTELLIGENT and CARING MAN who is VERY MATURE..and would NEVER refer to DRUGS as his nic! That is what is one of the MAIN problems when people from OTHER countries who play on American sites need to UNDERSTAND American PHRASING as it CAN be DIFFERENT than THEIR OWN Countries Slang meanings! (In the USA ...."Doc" is short for DOCTOR of MEDICINE....a HEALTH PROFESSIONAL...Not referring to DAMAGING DRUGS such as LSD!)..........[quote]

Lol Jeff
1) this Doc who started this post is not Tom
2) people really got their names taken because of that urban dictionary, even got banned. Just because a word "can" have a different meaning. I agree with you, it is not ok.

Are you saying the main problems on HW are the 3 of us whos native language isnt english?
Lol, hope this time I misunderstood you.

Believe me, this has nothing to do with me not understanding english and english slang. My point was that a name shouldsnt be taken away just because urban dictionary says a common word can have multiple meanings. And that actually happened.
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Post by Butthead » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:52 am

Amal, I am glad you are clearing what you meant to say! it helps ALOT!... I also cleared any thoughts that could have been taken in a different view as you will see by my posts above.... again...NO OFFENSE taken... and NO OFFENSE meant as well! .... HAVE A GREAT DAY! .... WOULDNT IT BE A GREAT WORLD IF EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD EVERYONE ALL THE TIME? .... HUGZ TEW AWL!!!! (Hugz to all).

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Post by Butthead » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:58 am

OMG! I ALMOST FORGOT! ..... The real ORIGINAL reason for this WHOLE THREAD was as a JOKE for HW ANGEL (Katy) because of a MIS UNDERSTANDING in the lobby which turned into a VERY FUN Joke for ALL for two days........ HOWEVER, the REAL person who was "expecting" was "SIGN MAKER" who is "RANGER RICKS" Real Live Brother...... I understand he NOW IS A VERY PROUD FATHER of a PreMature Baby Boy.... I HOPE ALL GOES WELL FOR YOU JOHN (sign maker) AND YOUR FAMILY.... and MAY YOUR NEW BORN SON GET HOME SOON, HEALTHY and SAFE! CONGRATULATIONS on your VERY HAPPY EVENT!

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Post by American Beauty » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:00 am

I too, would like to claify something, since we all seem to be in a clarifying mood.

Of all people who have had names playerized, I think ButtHead takes the prize! I have taken more from him than anyone else; he wont deny. Even though they were meant in fun, they crossed the line just a little bit --- enough so that they were deemed inappropriate. And yet! here's where the irony lie... here he is being supportive and admonishing us all to focus on the values of the site.

Also, I would like to clarify about the rule on ass and butt nics.

There is a specific site rule of no 'ass' nics. Let me explain.

A long time ago, players got carried away with making ass nics as a means of protest. They didn't like them, so they protested by making lots of them. I mean the whole lobby was full of ass nics, so much so that Jonas was forced to make it a site rule. No ass nics. However, the word butt has been allowed in certain circumstances. As long as it's not being used in a vulgar way or as a slam on other people. Here again, the same rule applies to the word, hell.

It is true, one guide might find a certain nic to be more offensive than another, and I'm not here to challenge any guide ruling. But if anyone feel a name should not have been taken, then simply ask for it back.
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