Random Deal Generator

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Joe Andrews
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Random Deal Generator

Post by Joe Andrews » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:10 am

It seems that the RDG is a never ending topic. "Are HW deals fair"? "Why do I lose a gazillion games in a row"?. "Why are the hands stacked at some tables?". "I have never lost 16 or 20 in a row, but it happened here at HW", and so forth, aud nauseum.

How about the winning streaks? Have you ever won (on line)ten games in a row or 19 out of 20? If someone is losing a ton of consecutive games, then surely someone is winning a boatload of consecutive games, as well. Have any of the winners of long streaks of games ever posted in here? Has anyone ever won 20 or 30 games in a row, here at HW? Let's hear from these folks!

If you have time, (after all, football is over, and March Madness hasn't started yet) - try this experiment. Go into a room and play with three bots. Play at least 20 or 30 games in a row. Euchre is fast and moves along. Record the hands for each "player". Analyze the tendencies for each side. Is your team getting more Bowers more often? Are you ordering or picking up the turned card on a regular basis? How about "stone cold" Loners? Who is getting them? How many? Then on some other evening that TV is boring and you are ready to fall asleep, try playing with your favorite partner, and two human opponents. Record the hands. Observe if the same patterns occur. Then you can post your findings here. :lol:

And FYI, do not expect HW to invest time and resources into changing the RDG. Until there is bona fide proof via scientific analysis that the RDG is truly flawed at HW, nothing is going to change.

Enjoy the game. After all, that's all it is - a game!

And enjoy life, too!

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Kamikaze17
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Post by Kamikaze17 » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:28 am

I think the highest Winning streak in the HW Forest League, is around 28 or so. That is 28 games played in a Tourney without loss. I don't know if there are higher in other leagues as i can only speak for my own. But hopefully that helps answer the "eternal question".

p.s. It most certainly was not me that got 28 in a row! ROFLMAO


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War not determine who is right... War determine who is left!

the count24
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Post by the count24 » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:23 am

Results like this happens not only online....but in real life too. I seen at the casino; the roulette wheel hitting red 20+ times in a row, banker winning in bacarrat 20+ times in a row, craps shooter rolling 3hrs without crapping out. Odds of all these are over 1 million to 1, but if the sample is large enough (as in # of games played in euchre) they are bound to occur.
always play your best, and keep counting.....

Harden1313
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Harden1313 » Fri May 23, 2008 2:44 pm

Found this topic and had to add a bit (I know it's an old thread).

I wish I would have been writing down the results of the last few weeks here at HW. :roll: It seems that though not most games I've played but enough of them to be fishy have been flooded with lopsided rounds. I'm not complaining that it's always "those other guys" that get favored by this tendency since I do to, I'm complaining that it sucks all the fun out of the dang game when you know you're either skating up hill or being gifted with loners and bauers each hand. When playing in real life I NEVER see hands as frequent as this. Real life hands are more middle of the road most often with the occasional loner or power hand peppered in allowing for a players skill to turn the tables more often than not. Here at HW though that skill factor gets diluted a bit. I know that over the long haul the skilled players will rise to the top but bearing that in mind I have heard players from every skill set complain about how "un-random' the "random" generator really is. As a side note I have never seen the deal automatically compensate for a team who just got crushed by giving them two power loners. I love the people who play here which is why I stay but dang is it frustrating to say the least. :wink:

Ok...I feel better! :lol:
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wolf_139
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by wolf_139 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:57 am

well i have figured out a few strong points to support the arguement.

#1 on other sites including pogo,yahoo,mystic,what was the zone, and wgc my win % is 75% or better here im not far over 50% and yahoo has more cheats.. my rating and % there.... 82% with a rating of 2600

#2 if your over 1500 playing a provie.. just set it to auto and walk away your not winning
winning % vs provies 9% winning % under my hider as a provie a whopping 98%

#3 when cards are bad in smoots hide in tour rooms ive always had luck with this including 6 tour wins in a row in different rooms after losing 10 straight in smoots

#4 i recently went on a 32 out of 40 tear... im now 8 of my last 35 and still being dealt complete rubbish every game

as for the 28 game winning streak. yes joe we know it wasnt you ;) but my high to date.... 40 in RL tourney in detroit. got the ribbon and stat pages from the tour if anyone has doubts lol

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:45 pm

I play almost as much in real life as I do here.

In addition to copious lunch games, I play every Friday night with hard core Euchre players.

I started keeping count. Over the last 4 weeks...

1. We played 36 games.
2. We had 11 successful loners
3. We had 54 euchres
4. My record is 26-10

So I had something to compare...

1. I played 36 games here.
2. There were 54 successful loners
3. There were 28 euchres
4. My record is 14-22

When I play with people, there's SKILL involved. There is NO skill here!!

I get so frustrated with how obviously stacked the cards are I want to scream. As a programmer myself, it amazes me that this can't be rectified.

Please put the fun back into the game and make skill matter.

callme7
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by callme7 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:42 pm

Hi Gart, let me throw my pennies worth in here if i may. I don't profess for one minute to have all the answers but the deal is as random as you will get with a Deck of 9s up, in saying this though i believe the randomness is thrown up in patterns of cards more than individual cards being spread around, eg. count how many times the dealer turns down the deal, the 1st seat calls next, the right Bower was in the Partners hand, 3rd seat 79% of the time. I did this over 1500 games. If you do this in a hard card euchre game ie. real cards, the same scenario is nothing like this, it's more of a 50/50 thing. As many of us have mentioned many times, come on HW where is the 7s up game, the real Mckoy, in this game it just doesn't happen like this. :) :)

Eennie Meenie

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Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:35 pm

My main point of contention is that everyone sees it. Everyone you talk to thinks the cards are "Funny". Everyone knows it's not statistically realistic to have so many loners, so many "streaks" of lost games. So many games decided by cards and not by skill.

Many people see it. Many people talk about it, and nobody does anything.

Just logged in to play to see if I could raise my ranking at all (above 1400, mind you). I have won 3 regional tournaments in RL, so I know how to play. I lost here, 10-0. There wasn't a SINGLE hand. NOT ONE that I could have called anything. Sorry. That's statistically impossible.

Hardwood, please listen. This is not fun for players that rely on skill to win. This may be fun for casual players that think it's cool to get loner after loner, but there is no skill in that. No skill = No fun.

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:46 pm

ok, so I'm super pissed now. I know that playing euchre at hardwood has NOTHING to do with skill. I accept that there will be 5 or more loners in every game, that as soon as I start winning the opposing team will get a loner, that the first hand of every game is a loner, that my opponents can win 10 -0 but as soon as I get two points ahead they get a loner, but it just irks me when I claw my way up the ranks only to have Hardwood decide I don't belong there anymore.

I did not win 13 games in a row to finally get into the 1500's. I won two, lost two, won two, lost one, won two, lost one, etc. etc. Until finally I clawed my way to 1543. That was when Hardwood decided I was high enough.

13 games later, with 70% of them I was winning until the opposing team got a LONER, I am just beside myself. This does not happen in real life....ever.

I play to have fun but end up being so freakin' frustrated at this gol-darndest stupid program and Hardwood's deaf ear, that it ends up not being fun anymore. I want a program that takes SKILL to win. Do you hear me hardwood!!?? SKILL!! That means there are not 7 loners in one game! That means not every hand someone gets double bower, Ace and lays them down.

Gosh-darn it. Whoever you paid to program your dealing algorithm and your random card generator should be sued so you can get your money back.

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:29 pm

Just wanted to let you know that your random card generator is still broken.

Played 4 games. THEY got 9 loners. We got none.

9 loners in 4 games......incredible.

But nope, there's nothing wrong here. Don't look at the man behind the curtain.

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:37 pm

Even more in the never-ending saga of horrible card randomness and No-skill Euchre.

Finally clawed my way back up to 1504 this morning. I did not do it by winning many games in a row, but by meticulously trying to out-think the stupid non-randomness of the cards. (so bad at one point there were 6 loners in one game!! ONE GAME). I laughed.

Anyhow, I digress. As soon as I hit 1504, which seems to be the ceiling Hardwood has set upon my player, I lost 11 games in a row. Not a single one did I lose by less than 5 points and most of them were 10-2, 10-1 or even 10-0. So now I'm back in the 1300's.

*SNIP*
I'm sure I will claw my way back up to the low 1500's in the next few days and then be blasted back to humility. *snip*

card player 1
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by card player 1 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:13 am

Any word from Hardwood on this? Of course not. Why, you ask? Cause they already have our money.

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:19 pm

No word on the broken card generator. They contacted me and chastised me that I could not talk badly about them or their programmers so they edited my posts.

So:

They can take our money

But:

I cannot complain about the product
I get no logical answer from them except "it's random"
Lots of people are complaining about it

It's gotten so bad lately that I believe Hardwood can turn a person "on" or "off" to winning. As soon as I started blaspheming Hardwood, I have not been able to win. My points are approaching the 1200 mark, yet I have been playing for over 30 years, and routinely place in the top 10 of any Euchre tournament (in real life) that I enter.

Ignore the man behind the curtain, because once he has your money he cares nothing about you.

Oh, and this post will probably be edited too, so read it quick.

card player 1
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by card player 1 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:27 pm

I hear you. One of my posts got deleted about recommending this site to others. So here is what I think. Since this is no longer a "legitmate" euchre site use it for other purposes. Espouse you political beliefs in the lobby, post recipes in the lobby, use this site to pick up chicks, post the latest NFL scores in the lobby. Use the lobby for anything but euchre. The Revolution Will Occur in the Lobby!!!!!

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:45 pm

Well, to be honest with you, I have no problems with them programming the random deal generator any way they want. But if they do, they should at least advertise something like:

"Play EUCHRE: for those that love loners and don't really want to use any skill but want to win anyway"

Or

"Who needs random cards? Let the computer decides who wins"

If they just truthfully advertised that the site is for players that just want to socialize and have fun and that the skill has been taken out of the game so it's "fun", then that's fine. But to advertise it like it's the "real" thing....that definitely ain't the case.

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