Random Deal Generator

Hoax
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Hoax » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:53 am

Pot calling the kettle black LOL. Gart's complaints are the same as Eennie and other players.
Gart wrote:
callme7 wrote:Oh man i give up, you are far too negative for me Gart. Good luck. :) :)

Eennie Meenie

The G
Gosh that was easy. And I'm not negative. If I was negative I'd be saying..."hardwood hates me and deals me sucky hands because they hate me and the whole thing is rigged against me". I'd wear a tin-foil skull cap to keep the aliens from beaming thoughts into my head, etc. etc.

I'm just a realist. As a scientist in real life I have to analyze the data and come to a conclusion. My conclusion, which nobody has been able to refute, is that the card dealing sucks. That's not negative, that's realistic!

card player 1
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by card player 1 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:26 pm

Ahh, I see the elite players of the world have come down from their ivory towers to chime in on the peasants conversation. How very common of you, *SNIP* and *SNIP*, whoever you guys are. Being the elite players you are we peasants understand you will still be the elite world class players you think you are, so theres no reason for panic. This complaint has been going on for 4 years. Guess how many times the "mental giants" at Hardwood have responded? All you need is one hand to count the number of times. My open challenge to Jonas/Hardwood giants.........post your data supporting the claim the random deal generator works. They have stated they have tested and tested and tested and tested the generator. So I think they should have data readily available. Until then, they get nathan!!!!!!! What flavor of Hardwood Kool-Aid do you prefer. I can tell you Grandma prefers good ole Orange. Jonas has a favorite, but wont speak on it. At least he consistently non committal.

Todd Johnson
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Todd Johnson » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:20 pm

card player 1 wrote:Ahh, I see the elite players of the world have come down from their ivory towers to chime in on the peasants conversation. How very common of you, *SNIP* and *SNIP*, whoever you guys are. Being the elite players you are we peasants understand you will still be the elite world class players you think you are, so theres no reason for panic. This complaint has been going on for 4 years. Guess how many times the "mental giants" at Hardwood have responded? All you need is one hand to count the number of times. My open challenge to Jonas/Hardwood giants.........post your data supporting the claim the random deal generator works. They have stated they have tested and tested and tested and tested the generator. So I think they should have data readily available. Until then, they get nathan!!!!!!! What flavor of Hardwood Kool-Aid do you prefer. I can tell you Grandma prefers good ole Orange. Jonas has a favorite, but wont speak on it. At least he consistently non committal.
I love the view upon this pedestal you have placed me on. :D Flattering...

What do you want him to do, paste the source code for the program? The data is in the form of variables and if-then-else statements, etc. 99 percent of the people here wouldn't even understand it. You can test and test a computer program to no end but that data will not include HUMAN error. Oh and my favorite is strawberry...

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:52 pm

I am a programmer and program for a living.

I would love to see the code. Random generators are not that complicated. It would not take much to tell if your code was solid or not.

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American Beauty
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by American Beauty » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:29 pm

Then give us Human Error, dammit! We need it, we long for it. We cherish the if/then/elses.. we are designed for it.
Look at the contraptions of our bodies! our skulls, the way the joint connects to the tissue. We are made to absorb the impact. Without it we feel remote and plastic like we are living in a tin world void of real smells, real grunts and groans and yes that wonderful clutching of the breast coupled with the occasional sigh, not to mention that stinging sarcastic scorn. We gotta have it or we'll drive you insane with the screech of all our objections. Never brought to a halting stop.. just the humm of the computer fan the tick tick ticking as we all hold hands and drink pepsi and cry the national hardwood anthem of- It's just so unnnn fair.

Hey Baby cakes, be careful, that first step's a doosie. :) ;)
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by GTO RACER » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:56 am

Gart.. while it's not the programming.. it is the output... Look under the Spades forum... info on 5000 deals is in db format over there.
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callme7
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by callme7 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:24 am

I am now officially lost. :D :D

Eennie Meenie

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Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:40 am

GTO RACER wrote:Gart.. while it's not the programming.. it is the output... Look under the Spades forum... info on 5000 deals is in db format over there.
You're doing smoke and mirrors again.

I wanna see the code. The code is where the logic is, where the decisions are made. I want to see the code that says:

If teama.score - teamb.score >4 then chance.loner.teamb = 50%

or

If game.status = "new" then chance.loner.dealer = 90%

or how about this one

if user.ishatedbyhardwood then user.chanceofwinning = 0

The code tells it all.....

callme7
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by callme7 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:40 am

Gart, i am going to say one more thing on this subject. We all get the same bad cards at some stage at different times. Seeing the code won't help you one little bit, we don't want to see it, it won't make any difference to me. If you were a top player you would be at the top and you would basically stay there. Stop relying on good deals to get you there, because that aint gonna happen. You have to learn the game 1st. I now have watched some of your games.Your leads are not of a top player, you double lead off suit a lot before trump is even led, that will get you or your P set most of the time unless you play very high or have a top hand. You pass far too much for a player that says he has played and beaten the best. I am not making this personal but your strategy will never let you climb the ladder. I honestly believe now that it's the way you play. Sure you get bad cards but i watched a game of yours 2 days ago, you should have bolted in and you lost badly, why? because you played some of the hands totally foreign. Watch the cards. As i have said to you at least three times, invite me to play with you, you never bothered to answer me. :) :)

Eennie Meenie

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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:37 am

I have a background in programming too.... and if the code was tested to show the distribution out of 5,000 deals.... 10,000 deals.... a million deals (which isnt hard to simulate with computers).... and the system showed an even distribution as you would expect mathematically as n approaches infinity, then I am happy that it is random. I don't need a code review.

Apparently there is the suggestion that such analysis in testing was not performed. Shame on Hardwood if it was not done because that is so rudimentary if you are selling a product. If it was done, well... I would expect them to do what they are doing now (nothing).
-Brian

"Come Sail Away with me...."

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:59 am

callme7 wrote:Gart, i am going to say one more thing on this subject. We all get the same bad cards at some stage at different times. Seeing the code won't help you one little bit, we don't want to see it, it won't make any difference to me. If you were a top player you would be at the top and you would basically stay there. Stop relying on good deals to get you there, because that aint gonna happen. You have to learn the game 1st. I now have watched some of your games.Your leads are not of a top player, you double lead off suit a lot before trump is even led, that will get you or your P set most of the time unless you play very high or have a top hand. You pass far too much for a player that says he has played and beaten the best. I am not making this personal but your strategy will never let you climb the ladder. I honestly believe now that it's the way you play. Sure you get bad cards but i watched a game of yours 2 days ago, you should have bolted in and you lost badly, why? because you played some of the hands totally foreign. Watch the cards. As i have said to you at least three times, invite me to play with you, you never bothered to answer me. :) :)

Eennie Meenie

The G
Ba ha ha. You make me laugh.

You ignore everything I say, and pontificate that top players are top players because they are good players. I say top players are top players because they know how to work the system and that's it. So you watched a couple of my games....goodie for you. Everyone I talk to at the tables still believes the cards are NOT RANDOM and do NOT REPLICATE REAL LIFE DEALS. That's all I'm saying. But all I get is misdirection, smoke and mirrors and finger pointing. "You're not good enough", "We say it's random", "We've done test after test", "I've watched you play a few games".

NONE of this alleviates the fact that the cards are not true. They don't mimic in the least, the cards you get in real life. I am sticking to my original argument that the cards suck. Just because top players have learned to work around it, have evolved their play to manage the horribleness of the cards is of no concern to me. My concern is, was, and always will be that the cards do not mimic real life.

Todd Johnson
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Todd Johnson » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:27 am

If you really are playing perfectly and you still cannot win then post the text files of the games that you think could not be won. Don't just hand pick the rare 3 handed game. If Garry is right and you double lead offsuit without leading trump at certain times, then you probably don't grasp the concept of when to lay off. This will greatly increase the chances of you losing. You obviously arn't very confident in your playing or else you wouldn't ignore people when they want to play with you. You say we use smoke and mirrors, the same can be said for you to make it appear that the cards are unfair. Use that mirror to view your own reflection.

We work the system? System of what, euchre? Either way, you have the same chance of seeing the same hands. Adapt.

Gart
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by Gart » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:07 am

Todd Johnson wrote:If you really are playing perfectly and you still cannot win then post the text files of the games that you think could not be won. Don't just hand pick the rare 3 handed game. If Garry is right and you double lead offsuit without leading trump at certain times, then you probably don't grasp the concept of when to lay off. This will greatly increase the chances of you losing. You obviously arn't very confident in your playing or else you wouldn't ignore people when they want to play with you. You say we use smoke and mirrors, the same can be said for you to make it appear that the cards are unfair. Use that mirror to view your own reflection.

We work the system? System of what, euchre? Either way, you have the same chance of seeing the same hands. Adapt.
Sadly, another "you got raped because it's your own fault" argument.
Another misdirection.
Another excuse.

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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by GTO RACER » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:23 am

Gart wrote:
GTO RACER wrote:Gart.. while it's not the programming.. it is the output... Look under the Spades forum... info on 5000 deals is in db format over there.
You're doing smoke and mirrors again.

I wanna see the code. The code is where the logic is, where the decisions are made. I want to see the code that says:

If teama.score - teamb.score >4 then chance.loner.teamb = 50%

or

If game.status = "new" then chance.loner.dealer = 90%

or how about this one

if user.ishatedbyhardwood then user.chanceofwinning = 0

The code tells it all.....
First off!!!!!!!!!! Smoke and Mirrors????????????? Yeah that's my game cuz I actually have the code and won't show it to you I will only show you the output. Muahaaahahaahaha.

Last time I am even going to comment back to you Gart..... I apparently don't have what it really is that you need.. and it's not code that's for sure.

Again.... Look at the output, it's under the spades forum..... What you stated above is just too ridiculous to even entertain a rebuttal.

I don't have one nic that loses more than it wins.... and guess what I've been silenced time and time again..... which would lead me to believe that Hardwood hates me AND I still win!

I"m going to go cheat the system now! Laters!
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Re: Random Deal Generator

Post by GTO RACER » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:26 am

card player 1 wrote:Ahh, I see the elite players of the world have come down from their ivory towers to chime in on the peasants conversation. How very common of you, *SNIP* and *SNIP*, whoever you guys are. Being the elite players you are we peasants understand you will still be the elite world class players you think you are, so theres no reason for panic. This complaint has been going on for 4 years. Guess how many times the "mental giants" at Hardwood have responded? All you need is one hand to count the number of times. My open challenge to Jonas/Hardwood giants.........post your data supporting the claim the random deal generator works. They have stated they have tested and tested and tested and tested the generator. So I think they should have data readily available. Until then, they get nathan!!!!!!! What flavor of Hardwood Kool-Aid do you prefer. I can tell you Grandma prefers good ole Orange. Jonas has a favorite, but wont speak on it. At least he consistently non committal.

What part of it's on the Spades forum don't you people understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This information has been posted for THREE YEARS NOW..... since 2005...

Nobody is hiding anything.

THERE IS NO NEED TO BE PRECISE IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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