using another language while playing. Yes? or No?

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Unicron
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Post by Unicron » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:07 am

The key rule that it would fall under is this;

7. You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel and or Guides while on Hardwood or on the Official Silver Creek Forums.

and

Note: This list is not all-inclusive. Other actions may be determined as abuse at the discretion of the Admin and or guides.

We have many rules which are "commen sense" and not written but are clarified upon when they come up and cause a problem.

Basically when the game was initially created, the International room was SCE's answer to the language barrier. As the game is not localized (with the exception of our Xbox 360 games) it is primarily an English version game.

It doesn't mean folks who don't speak English aren't welcome to play, but frankly I think it would be difficult to order and play with any enjoyment without at least a rudimentary understanding of the english language. Again, except for our 360 games which are localized to your country.

As the site grew, it was basically descided the multi-lingual and foreign folks were welcome to play on the regular server with everyone else as the primary population of games is there, but at the same time be respectful to the fact that not everyone understands Klingon, or Spanish, or whatever your other or primary language is. So it was descided that folks that want to speak foreign language in a game would need to get agreement from all 3 other players before hand. This way the English folks can descide if this is something they want to get into or not.

As I am sure you all know we have ALOT of folks that are constantly on the lookout for Table Talkers and what not. Its only fair that everyone be able to understand what the other folks are saying unless they waive that right prior to the game starting. I consider this commen sense personally, but take it as you will.

With regard to your question about punishing, no player is ever banned for this UNLESS they continue to do so after being explained why they can't. (In their language if neccesary thanks to google tools and mult-lingual guides.)

The lobby we could care less as long as their follwing the same rules as everyone else for its use. (i.e. no spamming, foul language, etc.)

Hope thats clear. I know its long winded....

Jason
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Post by Just_Ice » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:10 am

Hexa, picture as if it was an international live tournament and you were sitting at the table with them. What if you played 2 other people who could speak English just fine, but when the game started they began speaking in a language you and your partner could not understand?

I think if neither side can understand what the other is saying, you hold the chat to a minimum out of courtesy.

If you CAN speak the same language as the others then you SHOULD.

The trick is to not hide anything before the game starts. If your opponents can not understand you, you should assume your partner can not either. If you can speak a language your opponents CAN understand, use only it.

As I said, it's not an attempt to discriminate, but to be fair.

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Post by HEXA » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:02 pm

Thank you, Jason, for clarifying the questions I had.. I got from your post that with the exception of the xbox games, HW internet play is not sold as a localized game only. I also gather there is no set rule against language differences upon "ACCEPTING" the terms of TOS at purchase. (Only common sense which can be a matter of perspective, and we find out it isnt really all that common afterall).

I guess, to me, it matters MOST whether i join a table, or i create one.
If i have joined a table i really feel I have no just cause to be upset NOR to assume everyone there is fluent English and will speak it. I think many people take for granted or just forget that there is life outside the English speaking nations.. Or even more ...Many countries outside the Good Ole USA.

I guess it also matters whether a person wins or loses. If they win the other three (or 2) person's foreign Language chit-chat wouldnt have mattered where had the person lost.. immediately "there must be foul-play" might have been the thought.. ya know?

Ice brought up Tourney play.. That is a good point and I feel the language differences wouldnt matter as I would hope rules and guidelines CLEARLY state chat in games at a tourney is kept at a VERY minimum because it is tourney play. (Even i dont discuss my kids, dogs, family, etc during tourney.. and I am a motor mouth!! i keep it to "vgg, vnh, nj, etc))

MAYBE.. it would be a good idea, because i FULLY understand and respect BOTH sides of this issue, allowing a person to put a "table description" when they host would clear up some assumptions left open. A player who speaks Russian (for example) wishes to play with Likewise speakers can list that in their description.. you get the gist.

I cannot help but imagine when a minority meets up with 2 or 3 likewise people in HW the excitement of just communicating in native tongue must be a joy to them, We make friends here because of our similarities.

On a side note, and in THIS scenario Sandbar spoke of.. If these 3 were ALSO FLUENT in english and set a 4 seated game and then left one english player out in the cold with general foreign language chit chat. I Find this VERY RUDE behavior on their part, and probably would have commented so. BUT i would have never assumed cheating. I might have left them to play with the bots though.

All I am getting at is HW is sold internationally, English may just be the foreign language.. What is the census on this? Have you tallied the amount of foreign members as opposed to American or English speaking country's members? We ALL assume english is what is to be spoken here and the other languages allowances should be "discussed" before the games, lol perhaps we have this all backwards maybe we have become the monority..

I gather with software abilities these days and HW's various preferences a person wouldnt have to speak a single word of english in order to purchase the game and to play online. Am i wrong?
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Post by grandmaS » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:25 pm

It is made and sold in the US Hexa, and you have to pay for it with US funds (if you use say a European credit card, you will be billed 24.95 american even if that is 30. something euro) not sure if that makes sense to ya.

I think it would be "nice" to have a note somewhere in the TOS that english is to be spoken at the game tables with the exception of the international room, or something. However, as it is now there isn't any such pharse in there.

Funny as it may seem I got called to a table for this very thing today in spades. However it was two opps speaking something besides english and two english speaking opps. I have spoken to the two who were speaking something other then english many times so I know they both speak English quite fluently even if it isn't their native tongue. I just explained to them it wasn't allowed they said sorry and that was about that.

One final note here as I too can see both sides.... you have the option of playing for a trial period before buying the game. Most, unwriten rules (especially one like this that would be complained about right away) are explained by a guide before the trial time is up. If you can't tell what the guide is saying (you can't read english) you could have problems playing here anyway. If you can read it but can't speak it well enough to be comfortable with it (I have seen this alot) you will at least know the rule and not be getting in trouble. :)

Very few I have found read the TOS entirely unless they are trying to find something and then too they are mostly speed reading looking for that particular thing. The longer and more detailed it is the fewer that are going to read it. So the only real benifit for most of having it in there would be so a guide could point out to them that it is in paragraph ten line 6 of the TOS, (example only lol)

When I can I play late night and play with a lot of Dutch and at times they like to speak Dutch at the table, I am often the only non dutch speaking one (although I can read some of it so be careful lol) I still enjoy the game and love watching their chat and trying to figure out what they are saying. I also trust that my pard wouldn't want to have them cheat anymore then me and if he/she speaks dutch would know. IF per chance they were bashing me oh well what I don't know won't hurt me. :)
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Post by HEXA » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:44 pm

No, i understand what you mean =o)
Last edited by HEXA on Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dust In The Wind » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:26 pm

In reality when I come to play a card game.... I didn't come to talk, I came to play the game and for the most part leave it to Hello and GLA and maybe a comment here and there with a hand played well. If I wanted to talk to you I do it in the lobby or we go to another room and open a private room to talk. I would do this in a live game as much as the online game because I am concentrating on my play. To continue a conversation throughout the whole game while playing sets me to ..... after I win the game since I am the only one paying attention I will depart with a gga and let you continue your talk without me...... LOL

JUST DUST

PS - Sorry when in the game "GAME FACE" is ON LOL
TO BE OR NOT TO BE..... NOW WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT??? TO BE OF COURSE!!!!!

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Post by Unicron » Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:02 pm

I should clarify that the rule isn't If its not English it needs to be agreed upon. That sounds wrong. Basically it could work on the other foot as well. If it was a room of 3 french speakers and 1 person came and spoke in english they would be just as in their right to say this is a french speaking room, so if you don't want to join thats fine :)

Its what the table agrees to, but their needs to be an agreement of some kind if everyones not gonna be on the same page language wise.

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Post by sandbar » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:22 pm

:lol: I didnt think they were cheating, I'm sorry if I gave that impression, I was being facetious when I said I didnt know whether they were saying "kill the cat" I do agree though, that if they had typed out, "one of us doesn't speak English very well, and we will be speaking Dutch" I would have known. I still would have played. But when I am playing a game, I love the interaction between players, and the comments thrown back and forth, complimentary or not. :lol:
Comments like "you are the fleas on the underbelly of a dog" or "I think your smile lights up the sky" :roll: all makes for the fun of the game, don't you think? :D
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Post by HEXA » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:31 pm

Unicron wrote:
I should clarify that the rule isn't If its not English it needs to be agreed upon. That sounds wrong. Basically it could work on the other foot as well. If it was a room of 3 french speakers and 1 person came and spoke in english they would be just as in their right to say this is a french speaking room, so if you don't want to join thats fine
Aha!! Now this i can MOST certainly respect. I am glad you clarified it. :wink:


Sandbar wrote:
don't you think?


Yes indeedy :wink:
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Post by Intellimouse » Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:25 am

Like I said I just wup out my translater, and Have fun with it. Sorry to disagree but I have never had a language prob in HW. ( :roll: well a couple of times wiff some blu peeps :oops:)



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Post by sandbar » Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:20 pm

:lol: Looking for an aussie translator??? Well, first you catch the train to Perth, then you fly to Adelaide, then off to Ayers Rock.................. :D :D :D
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Post by Primal Instincts » Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:49 pm

Semi Aussie translator and Ayer's rock....... 8)

http://www.aussie-info.com/identity/language/

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Post by sandbar » Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:05 pm

:lol: Beautiful picture of Ayers Rock. :lol: Now, if you could only send one of our Aussie speak dictionarys to all players please rofl rofl :lol:
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Post by Primal Instincts » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:02 am

Well we tanned his hide when he died Clyde....and that it's hangin on the shed.... 8)
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Post by sandbar » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:18 am

8) Somewhere, Primal, you have run into an Aussie, you are getting our Aussie speak, down pat. :lol: Now, if only you could learn to like Vegemite 8)
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