Lopsided Deals

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BelindaW28
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Lopsided Deals

Post by BelindaW28 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:23 pm

Can anything be done about these crazy deals? It's to the point I don't enjoy playing anymore.

EvO M0nkey
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by EvO M0nkey » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:31 pm

I feel the same way , a 50/50 dealsystem would be nice :roll:

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Galt
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Galt » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:51 am

Hi.

Pragmatically, what would a 50/50 system mean in terms of the deals?

Would it mean that in every game neither team could be said to have had an advantage in the the deals, or would it mean that in some games a player would get good cards, and in other games that same player would get bad cards?
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Dust In The Wind
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Dust In The Wind » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:53 pm

CARDS are RANDOM... there is no 50/50 in real cards or game site cards

JUST DUST
TO BE OR NOT TO BE..... NOW WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT??? TO BE OF COURSE!!!!!

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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Openshut » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:04 pm

I am curious to know why it is apparent to you that there is an issue.
P.S. I forgot to wave a carrot yes something can be done.
By the way Dust a 50/50 always exist look up normalization.
Your Human ability to pattern recognize also will mislead you!

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Galt
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Galt » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:01 pm

As long as deals are not rigged for some reason, over the long-term everything will even out.
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BelindaW28
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by BelindaW28 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:05 am

Galt wrote:Hi.

Pragmatically, what would a 50/50 system mean in terms of the deals?

Would it mean that in every game neither team could be said to have had an advantage in the the deals, or would it mean that in some games a player would get good cards, and in other games that same player would get bad cards?
This is not exactly what I meant. But when you have a team getting 6, 7 or 8 bids plus nils, while the other team is struggling to get 1 and 2 bids almost every hand, where is the fairness? By 3rd hand the opps have a 200 point lead. You're better off resigning the game than prolonging the inevitable.

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Galt
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Galt » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:21 pm

Is your sense that you suffer from such deals more than you benefit from them.

If most games are as you described, going either way, playing would not be much fun.
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Sailing_Away » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:13 am

Maybe if you email a game log (Lobby012345689.txt file) to support@silvercrk.com that demonstrates the unbelievable streak of bad deals, that's something that they can analyze.

In true randomness, bad streaks exist but then would typically be countered by lucky streaks. Some people think there should be some intentional elimination of lopsided random deals, but to be purely fair, all such random possibilities are allowed. The factors that really should be up for question are:

1) Is there something wrong with the random dealer that causes a skewing of these deals?

2) Is there something about how your opps are bidding that affect your bid and perception of the deal?

3) Is there any attempt right now in place to disrupt the natural randomness of a given deal?

I believe the answer to number 3 is no based on all the discussions this forum has seen on this topic.

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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Openshut » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:13 pm

Not a great idea sailing to suggest sending in hands, sort of say sending in 100 billion it will not mean anything. So that is a really bad road to even dream of. I tried counting to a million before several times I will not embarrass my self by telling you how many hundreds I got to. The Number of card deals are defined like this for a game like spades or bridge 52!/(4!x(13!)^4 ) ugly and massively beyond any meaningful % of understanding. Now the deal system could have problems, but short of hardwood doing a mathematical analysis of both the shuffling routine and the RNG its self. No one would really know what to fix. But this would be only the beginning of the bad news, as it turns out when the deal generation program is 100% certified by all the people in the know. Hardwood players would say hey there is something still wrong. So let me break the dirty secret you, as humans we really do not have good ability to see things as being random. If a pattern is not there we will make one.
But on the flip-side having reports that describe, rolling exact patterns could be significant, but even then we have a glaring issue, we tend to fixate on aspects of the game we give value. In Short we tend to be less than objective!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Sailing_Away » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:35 am

Ok, mathematically I see what you're saying that one game doesn't come close to proving mathematical lopsidedness. You can always fall victim to a whole game of really bad deals (where your opps seem to be dealt all good deals the whole game), even with a totally random dealer routine. I have been involved in Texas hold-em games where my hand was always best post-flop and the donk who went in with me made their winning hand runner-runner, and I know that doesn't mean their routine is coded to make that happen. To really prove something is wrong requires analysis of a really large sample of consecutive hands dealt.

Analysis of the dealer routine would be the simpler task.

If there is some kind of governing body for certification of card dealer routines (big if), I think it would be good for sites like this to obtain such certification and post it. Complaints by players on all such sites seem to be universal with this regard. Have you heard of such certification programs?
-Brian

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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Openshut » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:24 pm

I bet if anyone know Joe Andrews would.

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Galt
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Galt » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:14 am

Sailing, I do believe that most, if not all, online poker sites do have rigged deals.

Why?, one would ask.

The reason is that if two players can be given hands that would normally be drop dead winners, they will bet and bet and bet, thus increasing the size of the pot and the resulting rake.

I don't know if you were referring to online of live hold-em, but I have seen the above situation online so often that I do believe that it is true.

There was even a book published that supposedly showed players how to tell when this was happening and how to determine which player would wind up with the winning hand. I have not read the book.
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Sailing_Away » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:15 pm

Yeah my experience mainly is with PokerStars and online hold-em.

One of those "patterns" my mind makes is I make better hands right after making a deposit, LOL.
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Re: Lopsided Deals

Post by Openshut » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:06 pm

This is poor logic to indulge in, so now i must be the devils advocate, Most not all online Spades sites have a benefit for having rigged card deals thus allowing weaker players to not loose interest.
To be clear, I am just demonstrating the poor logic displayed above.

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